Sudden guppy die off. Please help!

[ccross]

All of my guppies have been healthy and all of a sudden I’ve lost 2 in 2 days and another on the way out!

Tank setup: 10 gallon. Fully cycled (water parameters just tested and all was perfect). Water temperature held at 75 degrees (can’t go much higher because of my Borneo loach). EXTREMELY planted (possible issue #1?), HAD 7 guppies, 2 male and 5 female. Lots of fry (that I had intended to move once they were big enough to catch) a Borneo loach, and 4 shrimp (2 Sunkist orange shrimp and 2 unknown name blue shrimp. More than adequate filtration with a HOB and a sponge filter that I’ve been seeding for another tank.

Here’s what’s changed. I added hornwort, guppy grass and Java fern. When I did so, I added a new full spectrum light. Tank also has Anubias and Java moss. I’m not sure how long I should be running the grow light so it runs on plant mode for 8 to 10 hours most days. My hornwort has grown out of control, really taking up a lot of tank space (perhaps the fish don’t have enough room now?). I’ve noticed round algae spots on my Anubias also. The walls of the tank seem to be spotting up with algae also (my loach is eating well!) Also, I have about 20 to 30 fry all of various sizes. Three females dropped within days of one another. I haven’t been able to gravel vac lately because of the babies and all the plant growth. I did add a new male to the tank just before the others started dying. I got him from the LFS and he was quarantined in a separate tank for a week before adding.

I have no idea what could be causing this. I plan on moving all the adult guppies to another established tank today so the fry can grow out. I don’t seem to have lost any fry through all this.

Anyone have any ideas about this or anything I can check or try? I don’t want to lose my guppies. Dumb as it sounds I’m attached to them. One in particular that I have had since I got my first tank and I really don’t want to lose her. So far she is acting just fine. She’s the tank boss. Bigger than all the rest and seems to call the shots lol.

 

[Colin_T]

Pictures and video of the fish so we can check them for disease?

Haver you added anything to the tank in the last 2 weeks (besides the plants)?
Re: the new plants. Were they from an aquarium that contained fish?

Don't move sick fish unless you know what is causing the problem because you can transfer the disease to another tank.

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Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

 

[ccross]

Pictures and video of the fish so we can check them for disease?

Haver you added anything to the tank in the last 2 weeks (besides the plants)?
Re: the new plants. Were they from an aquarium that contained fish?

Don't move sick fish unless you know what is causing the problem because you can transfer the disease to another tank.

-------------------

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Nothing new has been added other than the fish that was quarantined. The fish will be moved to a tank that has no other fish in it. This is because I want to separate them from the fry in the current tank.

I’m afraid to do a gravel vac because of all the fry in the tank. My vac sucks them up.

My filter cartridge could probably use cleaning or replacing. It’s been in there since the beginning of September. I’m just afraid of losing all the BB in it.

I will do another water change. I generally change 2 gallons a week (10 gallon tank) and then dechlorinate with Prime. That I can do with a smaller tube that doesn’t suck up the fry. I’m worried about changing so much water at a time though because I have a hard time matching water temps. I usually let it get to room temp before adding it to the tank. I don’t want to shock the fry and kill them. Or my shrimp and loach.

Any advice on the plants? Can too many choke the space the fish have to live? How ping should the grow lite be ran daily? That hornwort grows so fast!

Thanks for your help!

 

[ccross]

Here is a video of the current sick and dying fish. He’s one of my favorites.

https://imgur.com/a/lHKZ57S

And a video of the full tank, after removing most of the hornwort.

https://imgur.com/a/3BjMTkd

And last, this fish is doing what all of them seem to do just before they get sick. They sit and swim in the current of the HOB filter. Hopefully my Koi Guppy isn’t next. I love that fish!

https://imgur.com/a/PsjM31h

 

[Colin_T]

Does the blue guppy in the video have white spots on the tail or body?

It looks like the fish has a minor bacterial infection on the tail but it's also breathing heavily. It could have an internal bacterial infection.
When they act like this, do they eat anything?
What does their poop look like?

If it has stringy white poop and isn't eating, then it has an internal bacterial infection and there is no cure. The fish usually die within 24 hours of showing these symptoms.

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You can add some salt and it might help. It's a good starting point for sick livebearers like guppies, platies, swordtails and mollies. It's safe for the babies too. See directions below for salt.

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The only way that fish will die from too many plants is if they get tangled up in plants or there is no surface turbulence. During the day the plants photosynthesise and produce oxygen. At night they use oxygen and release small amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2). If there's no surface turbulence and lots of plants producing CO2 at night, the fish can suffocate. But it's rare and only happens in tanks that are completely full of plants and have no surface turbulence. Your tank has some surface turbulence and lots of water movement so is not an issue.

The filter is producing a strong current and the fish are swimming into that in the video. It's normal for fish to swim into currents but they need a calm area to rest. Make sure the fish can just sit in one spot without being blown around by the filter.

Don't change the filter pad unless you absolutely have to. Just squeeze it out in a bucket of tank water and re-use the pad. tip the bucket of dirty water on the lawn. You can buy sponges for different brands of power filter and use a pair of scissors to cut them to fit in your filter. Add some sponge, wait at least one month and then remove the filter pad if you want to or if it is falling apart.

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You can add some hot water to the bucket of tap water when filling it up. Just get the temperature close to the tank and you will be fine. Fish in the wild have to deal with sudden changes (usually a drop) in temperature when it rains. A few degrees doesn't harm fish. Big temperature changes 5-10 degrees can affect some fish.

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Lights can be on for up to 16 hours a day. Most people start with 8-12 hours and increase or decrease the photoperiod depending on algae growth. If they don't get any algae, the increase the lighting time by an hour a day and monitor over a couple of weeks. If they get lots of algae growth in a few days, they decrease the time by an hour a day and monitor for a couple of weeks. If you get a little bit of algae growing on the glass over the course of a week, that is about right.

Some plants like Ambulia and Hygrophila polysperma will close their leaves up against their stem when they have had enough light. You leave the light on for an hour after they have closed up the top 3-4 sets of leaves and that is usually sufficient for most plants in the tank.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[ccross]

He does have some spots on his tail. I just noticed that. He acts like he wants to eat but then just ignores it. His poop is really long and white. Will he pass this on to my other guppies? And how do I locate the cause of it?

 

[Colin_T]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Had issues with internet, computer and everything else.

Depending on what the cause of the stringy white poop is, will determine if it is going to spread. See below for more info.

The spots on/ near the tail could be white spot so monitor that. if the spots go away after a couple of days and then more appear a few days later, you have white spot in the tank. This is not the cause of the stringy white poop but is another issue you will have to deal with (if it is white spot).

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What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.


Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.


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2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.

There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.
It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't ingest or inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.


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3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

Livebearers like guppies, mollies, swordtails & platies are regularly infected with gill flukes and intestinal worms. If the fish are still eating well, then worms is the most likely cause.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And use Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

In the UK look for:
eSHa gdex contains praziquantel that treats tapeworm and gill flukes.
eSHa-ndx contains levamisole and treats thread/ round worms.
NT Labs Anti-fluke and Wormer contains flubendazole.
Kusuri wormer plus (contains flubendazole) - sold mainly for discus, comes as a powder which is quite hard to dose in smaller tanks
Sera nematol (contains emamectin)

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.

You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment. Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.