Angels

[JPKeenan]

Angels are cichlids if I have read right. I am def going to have either my 30 or 55 tank full of them.

I want to go for a natural look, planted and with sand. I found some PFS and was wondering what to look for (and look out for) with pool filter sand.

Like I said I plan to have it planted, I will be using a HOB filter, and want to be using plant light/florents.

My tap is a bit on the high pH side.

I also have not started to cycle the tank yet but am getting everything together and want to start it right from the get-go.

Edit: duh.... How do I clean the sand. Not with a gravel vac I take it.

 

[mgamer20o0]

yes angels are cichlids. use the grave vac and just go over the top of it sucking the dirt off. in a 30 i would do 2 max 55 4 max long term.

 

[BillD]

In a planted tank you can get by with a few more than indicated above. It really depends on the individual fish. Some are so nasty they need to be kept alone. Sand isn't the best choice for a planted tank, and definitely don't use "plant and aquarium" tubes. Use 5000k such as Philips Natural Sunshine, or 6500K tubes such as Philips Ultra Daylight. Both will grow plants better than the "plant" lights as they have more light output.

 

[mfdrookie516]

pfs is awesome... i found some at meijer for $1.99 a bag... id say you could get away with 50lbs for your 30 and have it somewhere around 1.5"-2"... my 55's had 2 bags in and i had between 2"-2.75" in them... ive got plants in one of mine and after only two weeks, the roots are huge.... lighting will play a big factor in how the plants do...

 

[JPKeenan]

I have never done a sand tank before, the three I have (one being cycled for my daughter) are are gravel. I have gravel for the 30g.

I have a about 10lbs of natural color gravel I think I might want to throw in with the sand just for looks.

The 2 marble angels I have in my 20g community tank I have fallen in love in with. They just sort of hang out and are peaceful towards even the smaller fish I have in there. I had heard that angels are mean/aggressive but like all animals I guess it basically depends on the individual.

The concern about the lights, I know that plants need a fuller spectrum of light in order to thrive. But the actual light output helps as well. Even in 15ft of water the wavelengths get a bit messed up (Oh I wanna go scuba diving again).

I have some PVC pieces I would like to coat with the sand for a more natural look as well. That or use the extra natural color gravel.

Mostly for the short term am wanting to have them for their beauty. But eventually would like to try to mate them. Monogamous mating in fish? If one mate dies the other will starve itself to death from what I have read. Have also heard because of a lot of the older breeding practices that the offspring are often time either deformed or otherwise (how do I say?) retarded in some way?

I will be looking into maybe having 6 in the 55g if they are not aggressive (if they are I will try to isolate them to other tanks).

 

[mfdrookie516]

my aunt has bred angels for many years and never had any deformed angels... she did warn me against trying to breed them because they require so much work, but id say as long as they arent from the same bloodline you wouldnt have to worry about it. I would think if you were really worried about that, you could always get a male from one lfs and a female from another... that would almost certainly guarantee they arent "related"... if you want to do something with the pvc, take and clean it really well, take a thin coat of silicone and coat the pvc, then roll it over some sand... thats how i did mine, works for gravel too.

 

[JPKeenan]

That's what i was thinking of doing with the PVC. I also have some cracked plastic/pvc from some stuff at work. With the Dremil I was thinking of cutting pieces off and making just some random stuff (maybe sand castle and a pyramid).

There is an angel fish hatchery near-ish me that has tours the last sunday of the month. I was thinking maybe getting a mix of different species males and females from there and the other half of the pairs from my LFS.

I think most of my other fish are live berers, and finally have my tanks stabelized enough for them. *lol* some reason platies and angels just do it for me... combination personality, body shape, and color ranges.

 

[DragonFish71]

I've got sand in 2 tanks and the plants are doing great. Our 10g is sand only, our 40g is sand/Activ-Flora mixed. I honestly think sand adds something to a tank when compared to gravel. Yes it is a bit more difficult to maintain the tank because of it, being careful when filling, being careful when cleaning etc, but it's so worth the beauty.

Angels like the tall type plants like amazon swords (native plant for them), and the vallisneria family.

If you add the gravel to the sand it will eventually settle under the sand. That might not be a look you want in the future. Just something to think about.

As for angels being aggressive. You are right, it's an individual thing. Just like with any creature, cat, dog, human, you can't say for sure how they are going to act towards another. Take female bettas. Most people think they are non-aggressive. Maybe some, but I can tell you the 4 females we have would give the males a run for their pellets! Give them plenty of spaces to hide and it can work out for the best. Sometimes you might have to take back the aggressor a few times until you find a peaceful one.

 

[JPKeenan]

cool thanks, ya'll getting a lot of good feedback (like I expected any less) from folks who have gone before me.

The sunken gravel might look good around the edge of the tank, where it can be seen through the glass.

Would I really need a full 2inches of sand?

I have some more stuff to think about now. At least I have a little bit of time to gather the parts one by one. I live by Lake Erie and will get some driftwood from there. I already have the tank, filter, top, and I think one extra light hood.... Leave me with the heater, sand, other side of the hood and what I will stock it with.

 

[spoonman]

Like gamer said, you will see aggresion. You might not see it right away. But, if they start pairing off, you definitely will. And if they start to breed, it will really amp up. Breeding angels is not as easy as just getting them to pair up in a tank and they will have babies like guppies do.

 

[JPKeenan]

Like I said at first will be for just the quiet beauty of them... Trying to breed them will come later.

Even with 4 in a 55g and some other fish thrown in I hope the aggression level will be down a bit. The way the pH is out of my tap I will have trouble from teh get go in getting it to a level where they will think of breeding.

 

[susankat]

Even buying angels from different places that are big enough to sex, you may not get a pair out of them. Best thing would be is to get 10 to 12 quarter size angels, and as they grow out they will pick out their mates. Then you can sell the others.

Right now I have 55 of them in various sizes in a 220 gal and will end up selling about 40 of them. And they are all from different parents.

 

[mgamer20o0]

Like I said at first will be for just the quiet beauty of them... Trying to breed them will come later.

Even with 4 in a 55g and some other fish thrown in I hope the aggression level will be down a bit. The way the pH is out of my tap I will have trouble from teh get go in getting it to a level where they will think of breeding.

you can do more 6-8 at start be know you will need to move some out.

Even buying angels from different places that are big enough to sex, you may not get a pair out of them. Best thing would be is to get 10 to 12 quarter size angels, and as they grow out they will pick out their mates. Then you can sell the others.

Right now I have 55 of them in various sizes in a 220 gal and will end up selling about 40 of them. And they are all from different parents.

i had 14 in my 120 grew them all out from little ones.... heck i could hardly keep 3 pairs in there in a 6 foot tank.

 

[JPKeenan]

the two I have... it is strange does not seem like they are having that much body growth but the fins are making them look bigger... body size still roughly about a quarter.