What is your opinion on hybrids?

[Oscar98]

What is your opinion on hybrid cichlids?? I dont like them at all. There are over 2300 species of cichlids out there so why do people need to change that just because they can?? What is your opinion on the whole thing?

 

[Aski247]

They are trash and should be culled or used as feeders.

They are what make it hard for the hobby to stay pure. Parrots/FH's/jelly bean/ballon/short body... All these deformed short bus fish should be killed with fire...

It's so sad when you come across a younger person interested in the hobby then hear them talk about liking a hybrid... Never knowing its man made. Ex- FH's. then I show a picture of a trimac and get... "Yeah it don't have all the sparkles". ::face palm::

It's to the point even if I wanted to say buy a Trimac... With out going to a reputable vendor... I would never really know if I was actually buying "pure trimac. Or Lg FH"

I know I been using the trimac / FH as a example but the fact is... Almost all the amphilophus have been crossed so bad with out buying from a vendor, you will never really know what you have is truly what it's called.

I love my lfs... But I will never pay for something that is supposed to be WC/f1/f2 and I can't trust where it really came from. Specially when many of the newer hobbiest are unaware or out for the "quick buck"

which also bums me out because I have to now pay extra for shipping and the piece of mind to know its "pure". Just so I can breed something and feel like I'm giving back by putting quality stock back in my area.

/rant off.

Oh and sorry to the hybrid enthusiast. Y'all know I'm very blunt. But I just can't get down with them.

 

[Oscar98]

I agree with you 100 percent. Ya sure some of them are " cool " or " pretty" but i would rather be looking at and or have a pure dovii/oscar/jack/jaguar then a ribbon winning flowerhorn.

 

[HUKIT]

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f100/hybridizing-thoughts-and-should-i-208417.html ...a nice read.

 

[PolyptRus]

In my opinion although i agree certain hybrids should not be made due to deformities and disabilities i can't say i hate hybrids as most animals even humans are all some form of hybrid.
Domesticated animals especially are evolved from hybrids there is really no way of getting past this. If you look at dogs for example the ones we have today are completely unlike there original ancestors due to hybridising .
A great deal of fish bought as pets are hybrids even those which we may believe are pure quite often are not. If you were to look at the blood strain of these animals you may often find a mix.
I am not saying creating a hybrid is alright i just believe certain strains of hybrids are okay.
The only hybrids that i feel are wrong to create are those that suffer from deformities and disabilities or abnormalities due to the cross breeding that created them.

I can't hate hybrids i am French/English that makes me a hybrid i suppose.
I own a daschund which is a quite obvious hybrid.
My boyfriend of 3 years is black/white is that not a hybrid also and if we had a child would our child not be a hybrid too?

 

[Oscar98]

I disagree. All dogs come from one species. There are many breeds but 1 species. There are over 230,000 species of fish just in the ocean alone and almost 28,000 species of freshwater fish. So it is nothing like breeding dogs.

 

[PolyptRus]

I disagree. All dogs come from one species. There are many breeds but 1 species. There are over 230,000 species of fish just in the ocean alone and almost 28,000 species of freshwater fish. So it is nothing like breeding dogs.

Dogs derive from one group which is canine but they have a diverse ancestory wolves are only the closest living ancestor to dogs but wolves were not the animal that the majority of dogs derived from. The original ancestor for dogs will vary but the original no longer exists. Say the original ancestor of a dog was a wolf and another a African wild dog. Just an example. These are two canines yes but when you cross the two you are still creating a hybrid. And this is what humans have been doing for many many years since dogs became domesticated.

 

[HUKIT]

I can't hate hybrids i am French/English that makes me a hybrid i suppose.
My boyfriend of 3 years is black/white is that not a hybrid also and if we had a child would our child not be a hybrid too?

First of all that's a terrible example since ALL humans are the same species which is NOT hybridizing, merely color morphs. Secondly it's a aquarium forum and the topic at hand pertains to fish NOT humans or canines.

Hybrid definition:

Hybrid - definition from Biology-Online.org

 

[PolyptRus]

First of all that's a terrible example since all humans are the same species which is not hybridizing, merely color morphs. Secondly it's a aquarium forum and the topic at hand pertains to fish NOT humans or canines.

Hybrid definition:

Hybrid - definition from Biology-Online.org

Its actually not a bad example though we may be humans we derive from a different race a different background and different ancestory. We did not all derive from one ancestor that is impossible. Same goes for any animal including fish. There is a great variety of animals out there because if two different animals breed they create an entirely new sub species and if that sub species breeds than it just carries on those genes and creates a larger population of that sub species

 

[PockX]

I don't like or dislike them. This happens to almost any pet or animal. All our food that we eat is from genetically altered animals. Milk, eggs, etc. They are bred for that sole purpose. Rats and tons of other pets/animals are "made" for the customers. It will never go away. It isn't right that you have to make something like it, but it's too late to do anything about it today. If you don't like it, then don't buy them. Same thing with food, then buy natural.

 

[PolyptRus]

I don't like or dislike them. This happens to almost any pet or animal. All our food that we eat is from genetically altered animals. Milk, eggs, etc. They are bred for that sole purpose. Rats and tons of other pets/animals are "made" for the customers. It will never go away. It isn't right that you have to make something like it, but it's too late to do anything about it today. If you don't like it, then don't buy them. Same thing with food, then buy natural.

Thank you, this is exactly how i feel. But i know that there will always be a big disagreement with hybrids specifically with fish for some reason, yet the same people probably own cats or dogs and buy food that is not organically and naturally grown.... I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions. I am one of the people who believes that hybrids of some form make up the majority of the worlds plants and animals therefore i see it not as large of a problem as made to be. Once again the only hybrids i am against are those that suffer from deffects and disabilities due to them being crossed.
I think there are worse things you can buy from a fish store rather than a hybrid what about the mutilated fish that are modified just for looks. Is that not worse than a hybrid. I think if anything these purposely modified and mutilated fish should be our main focus of hatred in the aquaria hobby. :/ that's my opinion.

 

[5x5]

Once again the only hybrids i am against are those that suffer from deffects and disabilities due to them being crossed.
I think there are worse things you can buy from a fish store rather than a hybrid what about the mutilated fish that are modified just for looks. Is that not worse than a hybrid. I think if anything these purposely modified and mutilated fish should be our main focus of hatred in the aquaria hobby. :/ that's my opinion.

Many of the hybrids I've seen at local fish stores are the mutilated fish that are modified for looks. My LFS has a flowerhorn in stock that would keep you up at night.

The problem (as Aski stated) is that you need to go to a reputable seller and pay more money for any reasonable chance to get a non-hybrid of certain species.

 

[BillD]

You can believe whatever you want, doesn't make it true. There are some examples of hybridization of fish in the wild, but they are rare. We have a few lakes not far north of here that contain a strain of Lake Trout that occur no where else in the world but a couple of lakes. They do not interbreed with the standard Lake Trout that occurs across the country, even though they are in the same lake. The natural inclination is to not hybridize. Lake Malawi is a source of cichlids that seem to hybridize quite readily in aquariums, but resist the urge in the wild. That is why there are so many different species, still, and even colour morphs of the same species in different parts of the lake. Some are even close together and still don't interbreed, even though they are the same species.
Personally, I wouldn't persue any hybrid, although, it may be difficult with some species that have evolved in aquaria from related species such as discus. Many of our colourful livebearers are in fact mixes of several species.There many desirable fish in the hobby that are in danger or even extinct in the wild. I would rather look at keeping some of those.

 

[TheCommunityCichlid]

First of all that's a terrible example since all humans are the same species which is not hybridizing, merely color morphs. Secondly it's a aquarium forum and the topic at hand pertains to fish NOT humans or canines.

Hybrid definition:

Hybrid - definition from Biology-Online.org

It is a good example, for if we were not the creators of taxonomy would race not be drawn as different species? For example their are lots of cichlids that are identical by body shape but color is different and we consider that two species. Hybrids are unavoidable even in nature. It often happens in river fish such as trout. Do I think we should purposely create hybrids, no. Are they a terrible thing that no good can come from, no.

 

[HUKIT]

It is a good example, for if we were not the creators of taxonomy would race not be drawn as different species.

No it still boils down to we are all homosapiens, that's not a good example of hybridization.

Hybrids are unavoidable even in nature. It often happens in river fish such as trout. Do I think we should purposely create hybrids, no. Are they a terrible thing that no good can come from, no.

Hybrids cichlids(or all fish for that matter) in nature are rare, they are killed from predation just like weaker deformed fish as mother nature has her own way of dealing of these problems.

 

[PolyptRus]

No it still boils down to we are all homosapiens, that's not a good example of hybridization.

Hybrids cichlids(or other fish for that matter) in nature are rare, they are killed from predation just like weaker deformed fish as mother nature her own way of dealing of these problems.

Since that is what you are stating than i suppose a cichlid is still a cichlid and a fish is still a fish right?

 

[PolyptRus]

Good point... I'm half polish and 1/4 German... They hate each other anyways...

::grabs matches::

Considering I was one of the first to respond and actually kept the topic about fish seeing how its a fish forum and all... Ill gladly start with myself... I have no faith in all you turdy humans any more any ways.

Haha... Well still to kill all hybrids and un pure blood lines with fish or any animal for that matter would be killing a very large number of the worlds inhabitants. So i just feel making such a statement is naive and therefore such a comment needs to see other examples of "hybrids" in the world before making such a statement.....* Fyi i gave up on humanity along time ago if i could i would give mother earth back to nature *

 

[5x5]

It is a good example, for if we were not the creators of taxonomy would race not be drawn as different species? For example their are lots of cichlids that are identical by body shape but color is different and we consider that two species.

I see many assumptions in this quote that are very telling to your thought processes and leading you to inaccurate conclusions. There is more involved in classifying a species than the shape of the body and the color. Taxonomy is a science. There is an evaluation of functional traits, genetics and breeding capabilities. This is also the reason species and genus classifications are constantly evolving.

If you think species classification is as simple as you imply in your quote, I can see why you would come to the conclusion that humans could be classified as different species. There is a reason humans are all classified as the same species though, they meet all the scientific classification criteria.

Based on genetic similarity, breeding capability and functional traits, what makes you think that skin color alone would necessitate humans being broken up into subspecies?

 

[PolyptRus]

I see many assumptions in this quote that are very telling to your thought processes and leading you to inaccurate conclusions. There is more involved in classifying a species than the shape of the body and the color. Taxonomy is a science. There is an evaluation of functional traits, genetics and breeding capabilities. This is also the reason species and genus classifications are constantly evolving.

If you think species classification is as simple as you imply in your quote, I can see why you would come to the conclusion that humans could be classified as different species. There is a reason humans are all classified as the same species though, they meet all the scientific classification criteria.

Based on genetic similarity, breeding capability and functional traits, what makes you think that skin color alone would necessitate humans being broken up into subspecies?

If you look at the history of how hominids even evolved you will see that different species evolved in different areas at different times. So how can those individual groups of hominid have randomly evolved into one complete species they couldn't have though we are all categorized as one group today we still did not all derive from the same original ancestor just as dogs it has been bred out of us but just like dogs we will all have different blood lines and most likely a different original ancestor. Keep in mind it was man kind who created taxonomy in the first place we were all listed as homosapiens before anything was really even known about the evolution of the homosapien species in the first place..... Whatever though this is off topic i would suppose. the hybrid topic gets too intense for me so i think i give up -_-

Thanks for keeping arguments constructive though

 

[Aski247]

How in any way... Does this retain to letting people know that blood parrots,balloon Molly's,FH's,red Texas,w/e bug eyed goldfish.., man made

Y'all need to stop worrying about who is technically right and worry about how this whole thing now looks

Basically the best thing in this post is the older link that Hukit posted on this same topic from last year.