What is your opinion on hybrids?

[BillD]

You make too many assumptions based on not dealing with facts. The evolution of fish is being studied intensively by more than a few people. Taxonomy is, in fact constantly changing, when new evidence comes to the fore. Regardless, hybrids are not two fish of the same species. So, whether fish evolved from one common ancestor, or several, the fact is now, that there are numerous genera and species. In most cases they can not be hybridized outside of a lab. Dogs and humans are not hybrids, with all examples of each, being of the same species. Bloodlines, do not a species make, nor do two different bloodlines make a hybrid.
As well, with all the study of humans, and the advances in the understanding of DNA, since the naming of humans as Homo sapiens, there is still only one species.

 

[HUKIT]

Since that is what you are stating than i suppose a cichlid is still a cichlid and a fish is still a fish right?

No that's not what I'm saying, since this is in the cichlid section and not the freshwater section I figured it pertained to specificly to cichlids. But if you read the letters arranged carefully into words in parenthesis then you would know it pertained to all fish including cichlids.

 

[PolyptRus]

How in any way... Does this retain to letting people know that blood parrots,balloon Molly's,FH's,red Texas,w/e bug eyed goldfish.., are all pure evil man maid monsters straight from the pits of ****...

Y'all need to stop worrying about who is technically right and worry about how this whole thing now looks technically retarded...

Basically the best thing in this post is the older link that Hukit posted on this same topic froms last year.

Again i must state your comments are naive. Do you own a dog, cat, eat food? Than sorry to.say but you support hybrids. Surely these fish you listed you cannot really see as monsters from hell... The only real monsters ever created are humans. I love all animals even man made ones in the end no matter their purity to me they will always be the same as any other animal... I am not trying to get the best show fish or the most pure fish i am just trying to do what i enjoy and if its a hybrid fish that i find enjoyable than that's what i will get for i have no judgement on its background or blood line. I won't kill something off or think it should be killed just because it doesn't have pure blood.

Hybrids exist anywhere just because you don't like it or think its wrong to cross blood lines or strains it will still never make a difference. Once something has been done it will only ever continue to be done. If you wish not to keep hybrids than that's fine don't keep them! but to state they are monsters and should be killed is a very naive judgment. And as to the deformed fish as i already said i am not against hybrids i am only against those that are created and have disabilities due to that fact. Speaking of disabilities you should probably refrain from using the phrase "retard" a bit inappropriate.

 

[PolyptRus]

You make too many assumptions based on not dealing with facts. The evolution of fish is being studied intensively by more than a few people. Taxonomy is, in fact constantly changing, when new evidence comes to the fore. Regardless, hybrids are not two fish of the same species. So, whether fish evolved from one common ancestor, or several, the fact is now, that there are numerous genera and species. In most cases they can not be hybridized outside of a lab. Dogs and humans are not hybrids, with all examples of each, being of the same species. Bloodlines, do not a species make, nor do two different bloodlines make a hybrid.
As well, with all the study of humans, and the advances in the understanding of DNA, since the naming of humans as Homo sapiens, there is still only one species.

Fyi Homosapiens evolved from a larger group of hominid species and those evolved from an even larger group of apes an so on they all derive from different geographical locations and times for thousands of years those species remained individual eventually evolving to neandrathals and eventually human beings. Its not known at which point these species would have broken off to become one entire group. And the fact that that could even happen doesn't make sense.
God did not magically make us appear we had to evolve from somewhere first and we didn't all evolve from the same thing....

 

[Wy Renegade]

Thread has been cleaned up and edited. Posts need to remain on topic and need to be forum appropriate. Please keep the discussion tactful and on the topic at hand.

 

[Wy Renegade]

If you look at the history of how hominids even evolved you will see that different species evolved in different areas at different times. So how can those individual groups of hominid have randomly evolved into one complete species they couldn't have though we are all categorized as one group today we still did not all derive from the same original ancestor just as dogs it has been bred out of us but just like dogs we will all have different blood lines and most likely a different original ancestor. Keep in mind it was man kind who created taxonomy in the first place we were all listed as homosapiens before anything was really even known about the evolution of the homosapien species in the first place..... Whatever though this is off topic i would suppose. the hybrid topic gets too intense for me so i think i give up -_-

Thanks for keeping arguments constructive though

Again i must state your comments are naive. Do you own a dog, cat, eat food? Than sorry to.say but you support hybrids. Surely these fish you listed you cannot really see as monsters from hell... The only real monsters ever created are humans. I love all animals even man made ones in the end no matter their purity to me they will always be the same as any other animal... I am not trying to get the best show fish or the most pure fish i am just trying to do what i enjoy and if its a hybrid fish that i find enjoyable than that's what i will get for i have no judgement on its background or blood line. I won't kill something off or think it should be killed just because it doesn't have pure blood.

Hybrids exist anywhere just because you don't like it or think its wrong to cross blood lines or strains it will still never make a difference. Once something has been done it will only ever continue to be done. If you wish not to keep hybrids than that's fine don't keep them! but to state they are monsters and should be killed is a very naive judgment. And as to the deformed fish as i already said i am not against hybrids i am only against those that are created and have disabilities due to that fact. Speaking of disabilities you should probably refrain from using the phrase "retard" a bit inappropriate.

Fyi Homosapiens evolved from a larger group of hominid species and those evolved from an even larger group of apes an so on they all derive from different geographical locations and times for thousands of years those species remained individual eventually evolving to neandrathals and eventually human beings. Its not known at which point these species would have broken off to become one entire group. And the fact that that could even happen doesn't make sense.
God did not magically make us appear we had to evolve from somewhere first and we didn't all evolve from the same thing....

Quite frankly, these have to be some of the most innacurate and incorrect statements on both hybridization and evolution that I have seen recently. You are total ignoring the true definition of a hybrid in favor of your own personal point of view, and you are turning evolution cladygrams entirely upside down. Your statements on canine hybridization, and human hybridization/evolution are completely inaccurate. Neadrathals developed from a common ancestor with modern day Homo sapiens, and there is some evidence that we even interbred with them, but we did not evolve from them, nor did we evolve from different groups of hominid species or apes that evolved in different places at different times. Neadrathals went extinct, we did not.

Dogs breeds did not evolve from different groups of canine ancestors that developed in different parts of the world as a result of hybridization. Crossing dog breeds is not hybridization. Crossing a dog with a wolf is hybridization.

Domesticated cats are not hybrids.

Humans are all the same species and racial or culture intermixing is not hybridization.

I suggest that you truly educate yourself on these subjects if you want to continue to have an intellectual conversation, because quite frankly at this point it is obvious to anyone who knows anything about the subject that you in truth know very little, but have a very strong, inaccurate, personal view.

 

[MrPillow]

As entertaining as it might be to debate whether or not black and white people are the same race as Indian person, Asians, whatever the case might be... I challenge you to present any sort of evidence that in any contradicts the genome sequencing of mitochondrial DNA which has for the last decades further and further isolated the evolutionary path of homonids to a single ancestral species of African origin.

http://www.pnas.org/content/92/2/532.full.pdf
http://wwwstaff.eva.mpg.de/~paabo/pdf1/Armour_Minisatellite_Nature_1996.pdf
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/5/863.full.pdf


To sum it up quickly for you - regardless of your skin color or area of birth, you share more mDNA in common with persons of African ancestry than any other combination throughout the complete mitochondrial genome sequence.

We are not hybrids. It's in the DNA, whether you like it or not. Maybe we can put that useless debate to rest here and keep it on topic.

 

[Jantaris]

Oh my... my anthropologically trained head is exploding now reading this thread! Haha! But I digress. (a few of you took care of that for me, actually EXCEPT to say: RACE is NOT a SPECIES. Our ONE species (homo sapiens) is NOT defined by race. And, in fact the whole concept (construct-YES race was a human made construct) is being actively deconstructed.
Whew!

I'll just say that the idea of hybrids simply for the pleasure of humans to look at something beautiful at the expense of the fish (i.e. leading to abnormalities, etc) is pretty rotten. This is not something that breeders and buyers should take lightly, nor is it something buyers should be blind to. As many, many of you say, do the research then buy the fish!
I'll agree that likely it's hard to avoid hybridization entirely, it's also something that shouldn't be done in such a blatant "let's make a ton of hybrids and make money!!!" way, IMHO. Ethics, please.