API Freshwater Test Results for Cycling 60 Gallon: Please Assist with Analysis...

[ArtesiaWells]

Okay. Ran the full battery of tests from the API Freshwater Master Kit tonight on the cycling 60 gallon, only containing the small Black Moor goldfish at this point, and I'd like to get some feedback on the results...

First, some brief history: The tank has been cycling for a little over a week now, and it was assisted with a nearly-full week of dosing with Seachem's Stability. It was previously the site of a nasty bacterial infection brought about by aggressive nipping by a small Red Cap Oranda we introduced into the aquarium, who subsequently ripped open sores in the other two adult fantails I had in there, thus letting a bacteria infection in and ultimately killing them (please see my long posts in this forum on this topic). The only fish to survive the infection breakout was this small Black Moor, who is now doing very well in the cleaned-out, sterilized and re-cycling 60 gallon...we pretty much saved her life after she was COATED in a slime-like formation from the infected tank, immediately putting her into an emergency 2 gallon holding "Marina Cool 7 Goldfish Kit" and then eventually into the sterilized 60 gallon. The aggressive Red Cap was moved to a 10 gallon, and has been given two small tankmates since then; that tank seems to be doing okay as well...

So here we are...about a week after setting up the 60 gallon again, getting it cleaned out, sterilized, absolutely scrubbed down and devoid of the infection that was in its water, and everything was thrown out and replaced -- the gravel, the plants, the decor and even the filter media. We're starting over with fresh media in both HOB filters -- an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 and an AquaClear 110 -- to get BB growth going again, plus new natural-colored gravel and new plants/decor (the plants and decor we're doing slowly as we try and figure out a theme for this tank). Here were the API results from the tests taken tonight; something is indicating to me that these numbers are reflecting a full or nearly-full cycle, but I may indeed be way off:

pH: Results came out very blue -- perhaps even HIGHER than the "7.6" maximum on the color chart

HIGH RANGE pH: 8.2

AMMONIA: 0, possibly 0.25 (this one is ALWAYS just SO hard for me to read)

NITRITE: 0

NITRATE: 0

Can anyone tell me if these numbers make sense at a week into the cycle process with one fish and brand new media/substrate? Shouldn't they be off a little as the BB colonies build, etc.? Should I be concerned with any of the numbers at this point, or is this tank looking good so far?

Thank you, in advance...

 

[Phranque]

A single fish in a 60g tank is going to take a little while to generate enough ammo to get your cycle starting, but it will eventually happen.... I certainly wouldn't go adding any additional fish just to create a heavier ammo load. Probably going to take a little longer than average, just be patient.

To "calibrate your eye" for the ammo test, the best thing to do is run side-by-side tests of your tank water with either RO or distilled water for comparison. For some reason, a 0 reading never comes out as yellow as it looks on the card.... you're more looking for a "lack of green". Once you do this a few times, a positive ammo reading will instantly stand out.

As far as pH, my tank reads at the high end of the standard, and at the very bottom end of the high range.... go figure. I guess that puts me right around 7.8ish. Don't sweat it, as long as you're stable.

 

[RussellC]

I think your numbers look just fine under the circumstances (age of tank, low stocking level).

Your numbers, however, aren't indicating a nearly full cycle. Rather, they are indicating that your tank hasn't begun cycling yet.

The low ammonia is due to the extreme amount of dilution. With only one goldfish in 60 gallons of water, the ammonia levels will climb very slowly. This is a good thing for your fish, though!

Zero nitrite is to be expected a week in -- generally nitrite doesn't show up for about two weeks (or longer, depending).

Nitrate being zero is also normal as you haven't yet produced any nitrite to feed that part of the cycle.

I wouldn't be concerned with any of your numbers. Were it me, I'd do 50% water changes anytime ammonia reads over 0.25 ppm or once a week, whichever comes first. Even if ammonia stays low, there are minerals/buffers in conditioned tap water that are good for your fish and tank that you'll want to replace.

As for the pH, I wouldn't worry at all, so long as it is stable. My goldfish tank continually runs a pH of about 8.0. Goldfish, from what I've read, can readily tolerate / adjust to widely ranging pH so long as it is stable and changes happen slowly. Furthermore, I've read that goldfish like slightly alkaline water (slightly high pH), so all the more reason not to be concerned. Your goldfish should like your tank's pH just fine.

One other thing to be aware of, the higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes. At levels less than 0.25 ppm where you are now, this isn't a concern at the moment - and if you keep doing water changes anytime ammonia creeps over 0.25 ppm, it won't become one.

Again, were it me, I'd move the Oranda's tankmates in with the Moor as the 10 gallon seems crowded and the 60 gallon has plenty of room, but the decision is yours and I'm glad to hear everyone in the 10 gallon seems to be doing well.

The entire cycling process can take a couple of months, but you're on your way, and everything looks 'so far so good' to me.

Best!

 

[techo]

I agree you haven't started your cycle yet is more likely. and that one fish may take a while to produce enough ammonia in a tank of that size

 

[Borderlesscott]

Took my 63 gallon just over a week to really start to cycle and I had more fish in it as my previous tank split a seam and I had to do an emergency swap over into the new tank. Had to change filters due to a larger tank so could only use a small amount of previously cycled bits and pieces. Just a waiting game, one fish in a 60 going to take a while.

 

[jlk]

I agree with everyone else here and as RusselC mentioned, you really should consider moving the orandas tankmates to the 60g. Three goldfish in a 10g realistically is three too many. Your 60g is only going to cycle to the bioload of the single moor right now. If you wait to add the others until this tank is cycled, you will be starting another fish-in cycle when you add them because your bb will not be capable of handling the jump in the bioload and will need time to adjust. I realize the oranda may be staying in the 10g but theres no reason not to move the other two.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Thank You Very Much, Everyone...

Your replies are most appreciated, as always; sorry for the delay in getting back to the thread...

We are definitely considering moving at least one of the fish from the 10 gallon to the 60 (although these two outside of the Oranda are really small), but in the meantime, I have some concerns about what all of you are saying about the cycle process on the larger tank...

Put simply, I don't understand what the overall concensus is -- the tank isn't nearly cycled, is that it? And it's going to take awhile being that there is only fish in there? Let me ask this, then: Is it remotely possible that the week dosing of the Stability has actually cycled this tank already because all the levels are at 0ppm pretty much? How can we be sure it wasn't the Stability that cycled the tank already given these numbers? I mean, after all, isn't "0" across the board what we're looking for in a cycled tank? How can we know for sure it wasn't the Stability that did this? All numbers read pretty much "0" (save for ammonia, which may have been possibly running one notch higher)...

As for the numbers right now -- pretty much "0" across the board -- is the tank in healthy shape for the Moor right now? Do I need to worry about massive water changes given these results, or can I just wait awhile and let the tank do its thing? The Moor appears very healthy and happy -- swimming all about the tank, "booking" and digging in the substrate, eating with gusto...can I leave the water alone for now?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

A single fish in a 60g tank is going to take a little while to generate enough ammo to get your cycle starting, but it will eventually happen.... I certainly wouldn't go adding any additional fish just to create a heavier ammo load. Probably going to take a little longer than average, just be patient.

So do you disagree that I should move the small goldies I have in the 10 gallon currently into the 60? Everyone else seems to be saying the opposite...

To "calibrate your eye" for the ammo test, the best thing to do is run side-by-side tests of your tank water with either RO or distilled water for comparison. For some reason, a 0 reading never comes out as yellow as it looks on the card.... you're more looking for a "lack of green". Once you do this a few times, a positive ammo reading will instantly stand out.

Actually, what you say here makes a great deal of sense and is clarifying a lot for me with regard to the ammonia test -- I should be basically looking for a "lack of green" as every time I run this test, it seems the color could fall out between "yellow" or "light orange" or some other level...it's too darn difficult to make out sometimes (although in my 10 gallon, with three goldfish, the ammo reading was clear that it was ridiculously high one time).

As far as pH, my tank reads at the high end of the standard, and at the very bottom end of the high range.... go figure. I guess that puts me right around 7.8ish. Don't sweat it, as long as you're stable.

I didn't think there were issues with the pH, but I merely supplied the numbers here because in the past these values were asked of me when I posted test results before...

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I think your numbers look just fine under the circumstances (age of tank, low stocking level).

Your numbers, however, aren't indicating a nearly full cycle. Rather, they are indicating that your tank hasn't begun cycling yet.

But Russ, isn't it remotely possible the Stability cycled this tank in the week's time, thus the "0" readings across the board?

The low ammonia is due to the extreme amount of dilution. With only one goldfish in 60 gallons of water, the ammonia levels will climb very slowly. This is a good thing for your fish, though!

Zero nitrite is to be expected a week in -- generally nitrite doesn't show up for about two weeks (or longer, depending).

Okay...perhaps my theory of the Stability being the lead player here wasn't logical after all...

Nitrate being zero is also normal as you haven't yet produced any nitrite to feed that part of the cycle.

I wouldn't be concerned with any of your numbers. Were it me, I'd do 50% water changes anytime ammonia reads over 0.25 ppm or once a week, whichever comes first. Even if ammonia stays low, there are minerals/buffers in conditioned tap water that are good for your fish and tank that you'll want to replace.

Okay; there are no dangers in doing the water changes at all at this point? Does it have to be a 50%?

As for the pH, I wouldn't worry at all, so long as it is stable. My goldfish tank continually runs a pH of about 8.0. Goldfish, from what I've read, can readily tolerate / adjust to widely ranging pH so long as it is stable and changes happen slowly. Furthermore, I've read that goldfish like slightly alkaline water (slightly high pH), so all the more reason not to be concerned. Your goldfish should like your tank's pH just fine.

What exactly is "pH stable" water? What is meant when it's said water is "stable" for the pH?

One other thing to be aware of, the higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes. At levels less than 0.25 ppm where you are now, this isn't a concern at the moment - and if you keep doing water changes anytime ammonia creeps over 0.25 ppm, it won't become one.

Again, were it me, I'd move the Oranda's tankmates in with the Moor as the 10 gallon seems crowded and the 60 gallon has plenty of room, but the decision is yours and I'm glad to hear everyone in the 10 gallon seems to be doing well.

The entire cycling process can take a couple of months, but you're on your way, and everything looks 'so far so good' to me.

Best!

Thank you; I had other things to ask you, but it has completely slipped my mind for the moment...

 

[librarygirl]

Thank You Very Much, Everyone...

Your replies are most appreciated, as always; sorry for the delay in getting back to the thread...

We are definitely considering moving at least one of the fish from the 10 gallon to the 60 (although these two outside of the Oranda are really small), but in the meantime, I have some concerns about what all of you are saying about the cycle process on the larger tank...

Put simply, I don't understand what the overall concensus is -- the tank isn't nearly cycled, is that it? And it's going to take awhile being that there is only fish in there? Let me ask this, then: Is it remotely possible that the week dosing of the Stability has actually cycled this tank already because all the levels are at 0ppm pretty much? How can we be sure it wasn't the Stability that cycled the tank already given these numbers? I mean, after all, isn't "0" across the board what we're looking for in a cycled tank? How can we know for sure it wasn't the Stability that did this? All numbers read pretty much "0" (save for ammonia, which may have been possibly running one notch higher)...

As for the numbers right now -- pretty much "0" across the board -- is the tank in healthy shape for the Moor right now? Do I need to worry about massive water changes given these results, or can I just wait awhile and let the tank do its thing? The Moor appears very healthy and happy -- swimming all about the tank, "booking" and digging in the substrate, eating with gusto...can I leave the water alone for now?

Without an ammonia source for the bacteria to feed on (either from fish waste or you adding ammonia) the stability couldn't have done anything to cycle the tank. The bacteria need ammonia to feed on to start the cycle. I agree that one fish in a 60 gal is going to take some time to buildup ammonia. Right now if your tests are showing 0 or only a trace of ammonia and nothing else, I wouldn't worry about any water changes. When ammonia starts to rise then you'll start them. When cycling a tank, you'll go through a few phases. First, ammonia will start to rise. That's from the fish waste and not enough bacteria to process it. During this time you'll test daily and do water changes when ammonia gets above .25. This phase can take 2-3 weeks (on average, every tank is different). Then as your ammonia bacteria build up, the ammonia will start going down and it'll be longer between water changes. AMmonia will then be staying at 0 on its own. Next is the nitrite phase; you might start seeing nitrites as the ammonia is dropping or after it starts to drop to 0. Nitrites will climb steadily and they are as toxic to fish as ammonia so test daily and do water changes as needed. This phase can take 3-4 weeks. Then once the nitrite bacteria start growing, the nitrites will be converted to nitrAte. Eventually nitrites will drop to 0 and stay there on their own. Your tank will then be cycled. You'll always have some nitrate (the end result of the cycle) and these are not as toxic to fish as the other two but you want to keep them as low as you can, below 20 is optimim (with weekly water changes).

Hope this helps. Here's a guide if you haven't seen it: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html

Oh, it can be hard to tell the difference between 0 and .25 on the ammonia test. You could test some distilled or spring water and hold the tube up next to the tank's tube test and compare them. If they match, the tank has 0 ammonia.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Without an ammonia source for the bacteria to feed on (either from fish waste or you adding ammonia) the stability couldn't have done anything to cycle the tank. The bacteria need ammonia to feed on to start the cycle.

So the Stability does not contain any necessary ammonia to start this process? It's just a sort of nitrifying bacteria?

I agree that one fish in a 60 gal is going to take some time to buildup ammonia. Right now if your tests are showing 0 or only a trace of ammonia and nothing else, I wouldn't worry about any water changes. When ammonia starts to rise then you'll start them.

Okay...

When cycling a tank, you'll go through a few phases. First, ammonia will start to rise. That's from the fish waste and not enough bacteria to process it. During this time you'll test daily and do water changes when ammonia gets above .25. This phase can take 2-3 weeks (on average, every tank is different). Then as your ammonia bacteria build up, the ammonia will start going down and it'll be longer between water changes. AMmonia will then be staying at 0 on its own. Next is the nitrite phase; you might start seeing nitrites as the ammonia is dropping or after it starts to drop to 0. Nitrites will climb steadily and they are as toxic to fish as ammonia so test daily and do water changes as needed. This phase can take 3-4 weeks. Then once the nitrite bacteria start growing, the nitrites will be converted to nitrAte. Eventually nitrites will drop to 0 and stay there on their own. Your tank will then be cycled. You'll always have some nitrate (the end result of the cycle) and these are not as toxic to fish as the other two but you want to keep them as low as you can, below 20 is optimim (with weekly water changes).

This all seems like it had come down to the numbers being presented to me via the tests yesterday -- "0" across the board pretty much -- but if you're saying the Stability couldn't have kick started and cycled this tank, then...

Hope this helps. Here's a guide if you haven't seen it: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

Thanks; I believe I read that but will give it another look...

Oh, it can be hard to tell the difference between 0 and .25 on the ammonia test. You could test some distilled or spring water and hold the tube up next to the tank's tube test and compare them. If they match, the tank has 0 ammonia.

I think the suggestion of "looking for a lack of green" is a good way to go about the ammonia reading; however, I will continue trying to discern this...

 

[librarygirl]

Yep, Stability just introduced the bacteria (maybe. Those things are hit and miss. It can be hard to keep bacteria viable in a bottle). Your tests are reading 0 now b/c there isn't an ammonia source. If the tank was cycled you'd have some nitrate (ammonia gets converted to nitrite then nitrate), but since there's no ammonia and not enough bacteria, there's no nitrates, hence no cycle.

If your sure the test is 0 for ammonia then it probably is. Sometimes it might look like theres' a hint of green (probably depending on the lighting in the room) so if you're unsure a good way to check is to test against some distilled or spring but it's not necessary if you're sure it's yellow.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Thank you very much, Library Girl...

Your insight is much appreciated.

So, at this point, do I simply need to continue watching parameters by testing every now and then? Perhaps adding a fish from our 10 gallon?

We were going to go ahead and introduce one of the small goldies from the 10 into the 60 this afternoon, but when we attempted to scoop him in the 10, the three of them were way too freaked out and stressed, so we stopped -- we didn't want to stress or scare them any more than was necessary to do the transfer.

 

[RussellC]

Thank you very much, Library Girl...

Your insight is much appreciated.

So, at this point, do I simply need to continue watching parameters by testing every now and then? Perhaps adding a fish from our 10 gallon?

We were going to go ahead and introduce one of the small goldies from the 10 into the 60 this afternoon, but when we attempted to scoop him in the 10, the three of them were way too freaked out and stressed, so we stopped -- we didn't want to stress or scare them any more than was necessary to do the transfer.

Chasing fish around with a net is going to stress them a little. This is unavoidable.

That said, once the fish settle into their new home, the stress will depart.

The stress of having three goldies in a tank too small for even one is constant and will never go away.

Better the short term stress of the move than the longer term stress of overcrowding, in my opinion.

Best!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Chasing fish around with a net is going to stress them a little. This is unavoidable.

That said, once the fish settle into their new home, the stress will depart.

The stress of having three goldies in a tank too small for even one is constant and will never go away.

Better the short term stress of the move than the longer term stress of overcrowding, in my opinion.

Best!

Thanks Russ; I see your point. The thing is, we actually didn't chase the fish with a net because we threw our net out as it had traces of the infection from the last setup -- we didn't get around to picking up a new net yet, and so we took a clean plastic cup and attempted to "scoop" the fish...this wasn't really working, so we just backed off. I wasn't comfortable really chasing one of them into a corner to grab them -- I realize you have to do this to get them home from a LFS or to do transfers like we were attempting, but there are a bit more humane ways and I think we'll just wait until we get a new net or one of them remains right near the surface to grab without too much stress...