Bio-Spira not working

[Allivymar]

Hiya tangcich and welcome to Aquariumadvice

I went n looked Fritz up. Actually, its no different then Cycle or many of the other bacterial starters one sees in the lfs (at least the freshwater version). Bio-Spira is different. Turns out, the bacteria most companies thought was the correct bacteria for cycling a tank (nitrobacter for example) is NOT the correct bacteria. Only Bio-Spira contains Nitrospira and Nitrosospira, which turns out to be the right stuff (all of em also contain nitrosomonas which is another nitrifying bacteria). Is why, when a bag of Bio-Spira is not defective, it cycles a tank instantly, as opposed to taking a week long.

 

[Bernie]

Hi tangcich!!

Fritz Turbo Start or Fritz-Zyme is basically like or very similar to all the
other "cycle accelerators"..... each claiming they have the "correct" nitrifying
bacteria.

Fritz uses essentially the same nitrosomonas (ammonia-oxidizer) and nitrobacter
(nitrite-oxidizer) bacteria cultures (part of the nitrobacteraceae family). These
have long been thought to be the correct bacteria, but wasn't until recently
that it has been learned that they do not play the direct role as once thought!

You may go to: http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp for more info
if you are really interested in the history & discovery of the nitrospira family!

I'm sure Fritz Turbo Start, as well as many of the others have been used with
success in the past to help cycle tanks quickly. None, however, do it
AS QUICKLY as the real live bacteria contained in Bio-spira.

Bernie

 

[Bernie]

Oh Darn.... Alli, I've got to remember you're here....!!

I don't have to watch these Bio-spira questions as closely, THANKS!!!

Didn't see your post while I was typing mine!!

Bernie

 

[Allivymar]

*snickers* No prob Bernie; you gave more tech info then I did, LOL and I was too lazy to grab the link.

 

[tangcich]

I work at a store that carries both products and I honestly think the Fritz is a better product. When we changed locations recently we had to quickly cycle new salt and fresh systems. We used BioSpira on the Fresh Side and Turbo Start on the salt side. The salt side went through the cycle within a few days, the fresh did not, high Ammonia lingered. We then dosed the Fresh with the Turbo Start and it cycled within 5 days. I personally think the whole "we just discovered a new bacteria article" you are quoting is just Marketing BS. The guy who wrote this article is on Marineland's payroll. We carried the Turbo for about a year before the BioSpira came out and have had many customers had great success with it. Recently I heard that Marineland is now saying that BioSpira does not have to be refrigerated and has a year shelf life. Be very careful about this, I have spoken to the guys at Fritz about this on the phone and they say that nitrifying bacteria is very delicate and cannot live in a bottle unrefrigerated in a concentrated form for long. Fritz dates their product, Marineland does not. I know Fritz is not the biggest name in Aquarium Products, but believe me, their Nitrifying Bacteria is good stuff.

Thanks!

 

[Bernie]

No prob tangcich!! We all have our preferences!!

The cases, however, that you sited: one in freshwater, the other in salt...
are obviously different situations with certainly no data to indicate why or
what was going on there.

I think what you're missing, is the fact that they are TWO different products.
The Fritz product is a totally different product (not live nitrifying bacteria);
The Bio-Spira IS the CORRECT Live Nitrifying Bacteria.
The Refrigeration issue, I'll have to agree, is a point of concern for me as well!!
Marineland still ships it direct to dealers (like myself) with coldpacks via
2-day service...... just as I still ship it to customers.
If you read on their FAQ pages:
http://www.marinelandlabs.com/cus_faq.asp#48
they are careful to point out the need for "stable temp" and indicate that their
is better viability of the bacteria when kept in cooler (slight refrigerated) temps!

So..... there really is NO CHANGE.... it just gives them a better marketing
avenue for stores to carry it on their shelves. (Which I DISAGREE with...
and which I will not do...) I KEEP MINE REFRIGERATED like it was originally
intended!

But again, tangcich..... Don't feel we're "slamming" your Fritz product which
you say you've had success with!! Its probably a fine product... as there are
many out there that are.

It's just not the same type product as Bio-spira! Many have had FASTER
success with Bio-spira since it is the actual live bacteria strain.... it goes
to work right away....instead of the time delay in most other products.

Bernie

 

[tangcich]

Bernie, I'm not feeling slammed, just trying to clear up some misconceptions. When I read the title of this post "Bio-Spira not working" I had done a lot of research on Nitrifiers, The reason was that we had been carrying Turbo for some time when Bio-Spira came out advertising that they were the "The First" when it came to Nitrifiers. I am also a Marketing student and was interested on how they could make such a claim when Fritz had a Nitrifying Bacteria product out for years! It's really just a big company "Marineland" vs small Company "Fritz".

I do prefer the Fritz product because I know it works. I said in my experience that we had to add the Freshwater Turbo after BioSpira did not do the job. We may have recieved a bad batch, but I have had several customers complain about BioSpira not working.

You are wrong in saying that Turbo Start is no live nitrifying bacteria, it is live. The Freshwater BioSpira has the same bacteria as TurboStart, Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter, along with BioSpira (NitroSpira) which was supposedly discovered by a Marineland employee. As far the "correct" Nitrifying bacteria, you are getting your info from Marineland and not an independent source. Every other technical paper list Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter as freshwater nitrifiers. If Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter do not work in aquarium environments, why does BioSpira contain it? Again, I think it's all Marketing BS.

Products like Cycle contain heterotrophic Bacteria (sludge eaters) which are a lot tougher than nitrifiers and have no real shelf date, but do not remove ammonia and nitrites (like nitrifiers) but instead eat organic waste.

TurboStart is shipped to us overnight on ice and stays refrigerated. Fritz dates every bottle and gives it a 3 month refrigerated shelf date. I honestly believe Marineland suddenly saying it does not need to be refrigerated and extending the shelf date is to get it into mass merchandisers like PetsMart and Petco (booo). Everything I have looked up about Nitrifiers states that they are fragile. Marineland is looking at the $$$ now, and not the quality of product.

Thanks,
MIKE

 

[Bernie]

OK... Mike.

I agree with you on the marketing end... like I explained.

As far as the bacteria goes..... they are two different bacteria.

Turbo Start does NOT have the newly discovered strains of nitrosomonas and nitrosospira genera which were discovered by Dr. Hovanec and the Marineland
staff. see: http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp

Nitrosomomonas europaea and Nitrobacter winogradsky were the older heterotroph bacteria strains which were once "THOUGHT" to be the correct strains
responsible for nitrification in closed aquatic systems.
If you're saying, Fritz' Turbo Start has the Bio-spira strains of bacteria....
I'm afraid you're incorrect... ... Their website and product description indicates
the same old version of bacteria that had been previously used.
If you have any different info.... please provide it, so that it can be seen.

You seem to have your terms and bacteria cultures mixed up here??

If Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter do not work in aquarium environments, why does BioSpira contain it?

Bio-spira Does NOT contain it, as I've explained.

The Freshwater BioSpira has the same bacteria as TurboStart, Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter, along with BioSpira (NitroSpira)

.....WRONG!!!

A quote from their website:

"Fritz-Zyme #7 (freshwater) and #9 (brackish and marine) contain pure cultures of LIVE Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter bacteria. Fritz-Zyme 7 & 9 give nitrification a tremendous boost by introducing over two million bacteria per ounce of product to rapidly accelerate the nitrification process. Always use these products when setting up a new aquarium to quickly and safely establish the biological filter."

Also:
"TURBO START #700 contains concentrated Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter nitrifying bacteria cultures. " End of quote


Again, the wrong bacteria!!

But I'd rather not argue with you over the matter.
We can just agree to disagree. OK!

Bernie

 

[tangcich]

Not arguing, discussing...

I believe the whole "newly discovered" strains is Marketing also.

You honestly believe that Marineland found undiscovered bacteria in aquariums? That no other biologist or scientist has looked into closed systems?

Turbo does not claim to contain NitroSpira, but BioSpira does claim to contain Nitrosomomonas & Nitrobacter (there packaging says it), along with NitroSpira.

Your quoting the guy who gets a check from selling the stuff, why suddenly is his research better than years of other peoples research?

Incredible Marketing...

 

[Allivymar]

*adds her 2 cents*

I cannot speak to the effacicy of Turbo Start as I've never used it. I have, however, used Bio-Spira 4 separate times, using 3 different packages, and had complete success each time. Immediately. Not a week later. My guess is yes, you got a bad batch. It happens, even when one is buying a car even if its the top rated car, or a crushed bag of chips despite it being contained in a box. I too have heard of a couple of folk who did not have great success with Bio-Spira; that being said, they did have SOME success (reduced ammonia levels, or no ammonia at all but levels of nitrites), but it was not as advertised.

As for the research, yes, it was done by an employee which could be suspect EXCEPT the research has been peer reviewed and published. Its not an "inhouse, we think this" type of research, but documented scientific research. Its one of the reasons I gave Bio-Spira a go.

I do admit I'm uncomfortable with the idea of non-refridgerated Bio-Spira, and will continue to use the cold version for as long as its available.

 

[Bernie]

Mike...Mike...

I know you're trying hard to shoot holes in Bio-Spira, but there are too many
people that have had success with it!! Too much research, not only by Marineland
but others!!

And yes, I do believe they discovered the correct strains....its called "progress"

and yes, Marineland is capitalizing on it!!

and the Package ingredients are: purified water, patent-pending pure strains of
Nitrosomonas: Nitrosospira and Nitrospira!!! P.S. Nitrosomonas refers to the
base family genera name for these bacteria. Some of the old ones were in the
same family.

P.P.S. You may want to actually take the time sometime to read the pages
of documents research and full explanations of these bacteria, if you're
interested in this subject. (on the link above)