Bio-Spira not working

[Mr502go]

I put this stuff in wayy before I took the plunge, then once after I added fish. My Nitrites have stayed at 0, Nitrates no more than 5.0ppm, but my ammonia seems to pick up .25 to .50 ppm per day. I've been changing water every other day (for the most part) and am keeping a log of water params. I don't get it.

Should I add some stress zyme?? I bought it before the bio-spira, but still haven't added. I've been trying to stick with Marineland products (I know they're compatible) I got some Bio-Coat today, and put a lil in there to help my lil guys during this rough time.

They seem spry enough, and they're eating!!! Yaaayyy.

Named my Pl*co, his new name is Kirby!! My mom (700miles away) named him when she saw his picture. Named him after her vacuum cleaner!! LOL

Anywho, back on topic what should I do?? I know they are much more susceptible to illness when water params aren't just so.

 

[William]

Your supposed to put it in the tank at the same time you put your fish in..

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

That sucks that it didn't work.

Looks like you'll have to cycle the "old fashioned" way....I'd start doing a water change every day that you're getting ammonia readings that high. Don't worry about adding anything. It really isn't necessary. Hopefully, soon you'll start seeing some nitrite readings...and you'll have to keep up the daily water changes...10% should be sufficient.

This process might take awhile, but not only does the ammonia make your guys more susceptible to illness, it can kill them outright. So it's very necessary to keep on top of water changes.

You might consider taking your water param logs back to the lfs you bought the bio-spira from, and let them know you got a bum batch.

 

[William]

He said, atleast from what I gather, is that he put the Bio-Spira in, then waited a long time before adding the fish.

Which is his problem, your supposed to put it in at the same time as the fish..

 

[Mr502go]

I waited 24 hours, then noticed bad readings after fish were added, so I added the bio-spira again, after the fish were already in the tank, and still getting the same readings. I'm a lil put off considering the $$$ I spent on that stuff.

 

[Mr502go]

If I get one final batch and put it in, would that work?? or no?? Is it too late??

 

[William]

DId the LFS you bought it from have it refridgerated?

Did you put it on coolpacks on the way home?

 

[Allivymar]

Coupla thoughts:

Don't forget its meant to be added with the fish, and not to deal with established ammonia levels. It may simply be not enough bacteria survived the wait period, and then there were established ammonia levels when you added more. That being said it IS working! Else you'd have higher levels of ammonia, you'd have high levels of nitrites and you wouldn't have ANY nitrates so quickly. You'll just need to keep on those water changes to remove that small amount of ammonia. I wouldn't buy more; what you have is working the best it can; it will still cycle your tank MUCH more quickly (standard cycling can take up to 6 weeks).

Also William brings up a good point. If it got warm (left on a loading dock for too long for example) it would have killed some of the bacteria not leaving enough to handle the whole tank. I have never used a coolpack or anything when I brought it home, and there hasn't been an issue, but if it really got warm it could present problems.

Lastly, what are you using to treat the water? Some of the dechlorinators also "remove" ammonia. They don't actually, they neutralize it, but it can cause false ammonia readings.

 

[Mr502go]

yes, the lfs had it in the fridg, no kewl packs, under a/c vent in car, was still cool to the touch upon arrival home.

 

[Mr502go]

The only thing I've been using is Bio-safe, then let the water sit for 24 hrs prior to putting in the tank.

I changed 20% two hours ago, then 15% a few minutes ago, my amm was up to 1ppm, sooo, now it's just around .5, but don't wanna stress my lil guys too much by continuously changin water, I did add some bio-coat this time around

 

[Cherry Barb]

I'm gonna agree with Alli on this one big time. Your ammonia levels would be through the roof if you hadn't added the Bio-Spira. Also, what kind of filter do you have? If its not a bio-wheel are you cleaning the gravel at the same time you do water changes? I ask because if you are using a bio-wheel your bacteria will attach itself to the wheel and in your gravel and that is good. If you're using a different kind of filter, then your bacteria will live only in the gravel. And, if your bacteria are in the gravel and you are "vaccuming" every time you do a water change then you are removing that essential bacteria.

Sorry for the long post, but that was the thought that crossed my mind.

HTH

 

[Mr502go]

THANK YOU for the info on the gravel, I thought you were supposed to vacuum it w/every water change, my filter is a penguin 125 w/bio-wheel.

Is it possible to change water too much??

thanks again.

 

[AtodaJ]

Maybe I missed it but there seems to be some info missing here that could be helpful.

How big is your tank? How many fish do you have in the tank? What kind of fish do you have?

I wouldn't recommend vacuming the gravel during cycling at all. There is no need for it at this early stage and as noted earlier it will slow down the cycling process.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

LOL the info is spread over a couple other threads (10 gallon...don't remember what kind of fish though)

I vaccumed while my 10gallon cycled...I think it's mostly dependant one how messy things are, if there's a lot of poop and uneaten food....better to just get rid of it IMO. And considering I have some of the messiest durn fish out there...well yea. I didn't vac every day though....just the regular once a week.

The only thing that happens with lots of water changing is that your bacteria colonies are very slow to stabilize.....not that they aren't there, and working, but they are more susceptible to changes in your tank. But changing the water is a necessary evil at this stage in the game!

 

[AtodaJ]

With all due respect I have to disagree. :| In my humble opinion, in general it is not a good idea to vacum gravel during cycling. If you load up a tank full of plecos then I guess that would be an exception.

For the most part, vacuming during cycling does not help your tank in anyway other than to make it look more pleasant (less poo floating around). If you vacum the poo out of the gravel you'll take the bacterial filter with it. The problem is that the ammonia that came from the poo is still in the tank! Your bio filter has to get established before you conduct those cleaning imho. If you happen to have a large bio wheel and the bacteria happen to flock to that spot right off the bat during cycling then you might end up ok. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to have happend for Mr502go. The bacteria from the Bio Spira dropped to the gravel initially. Before it had a chance to multiply and migrate to the bio wheel he vacummed most of it out with the poo! Hence the bad readings even though he used a product that does work.

Feel free to vacum as much poo as you want.... just don't touch the gravel until after cycling! Then only vacum half the gravel during water changes once a week.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Right, but as Mr502 is well aware from previous conversations (in other threads), i am the proud owner of one of the messiest tanks in america, thanks to 2 goldfish AND a pleco, hence why i stated in my previous post

I think it's mostly dependant one how messy things are, if there's a lot of poop and uneaten food....better to just get rid of it IMO. And considering I have some of the messiest durn fish out there...well yea.

to each their own...my tank cycled in 2-3 weeks, without the use of bio spira, and with my gravel vacs. I can only offer my personal experience as advice!

 

[Allivymar]

And just to cloud the waters more It also depends on your filtration system.

I gravel vac my entire tanks gravel/sand (or what I can read in the planted one) every week. I was doing it 2-3 times a week when the pigs were in the 25g. BUT, I use the bio-wheel systems, and the wheels provide so much surface for bacteria that removing bacteria from the gravel makes no difference.

As for gravel vaccing the gravel while cycling, I recommend 1x a week. Yes you don't want to remove the bio-bugs, but they will also be colonising the other surfaces, such as the walls, plants and filter media. I personally want to get rid of the poo and rotting food out of the tank before it affects ammonia/nitrite levels. Everyday however, is unneccessary and overdoing it IMHO even if one has really messy fish like plecs and goldfish as previously mentioned.

 

[Mr502go]

so should I change H2O now?? nh3/nh4 is at 1.0pm, other params the same. 6 tetras, 1 bristlenose plec

 

[AtodaJ]

I would. I'd get it down to a maximum of 0.5 ppm and keep it there (or lower) until cycling completes. Don't be afraid of changing lots of water frequently during cycling. The %maximums for water changes goes out the window when you are fighting ammonia spikes.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

and again, from my earlier post:

I didn't vac every day though....just the regular once a week.