Gold or not?

[Brookster123]

How much larger are the gold fish in compairson to the other fish? Lots of fish will canablize on smaller fish if the size differental is great.

Angel ram is new to me.. the breeder, I believe is in question, takes great pride in the refined gene line swimming in the tanks.
Ps- havnt seen any Pixar movies about rams yet

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[coralbandit]

Despite the name it's not a cross breed between angels and rams haha. Angel rams is a color variation of the species.. A balloon ram is an inbred with stomach mutations and will live a shorter life..

Every link(I said EVERY) to angel rams refer to "balloon rams" and every pic is a normally colored GBR?
Sure you have not bought into the shame of the fish industry?
I have heard of GBR,Golden rams,and Electric.
Would love to see another type........

 

[Reefer James]

A balloon ram looks like a GBR with a fat stomache. An angel ram would be a angel ram haha. I work in the fish industry for years. You can probably see it in my video I posted. In no way is it balloon

I'm pretty sure live aquaria has them listed as well. An angel ram also really has no blue. I also have one in my tank and it's stomache is not a balloon haha. I've had it for 6 years which would be longer than a mutation ram could live....

Yup...

 

[coralbandit]

Well I thought these guys ate their eggs in the 29 but upon feeding this am(fed in the dark yesterday) I see a large group of free swimming fry and both parents tending well!
Hopefully they will still be there when I get home and I get a pic maybe.
RJ; Not to argue but the LA version looks like a balloon(although less deformed).
6 years for any ram is Fantastic!

 

[Mar23]

I know nothing about Rams, but I looked up "angel ram" due to the controversy and I didn't see any balloon fish. I saw pictures of Rams with long fins.


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[PoppaRyno]

From what i know, which aint much. Angel rams are just veil fin rams. It was a trait that was bred out. Thats all.

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[PoppaRyno]

Oh, and the angel rams i see here... Have blue.

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[PoppaRyno]

Its a finniage thing. Not a body or color thing as far as i know.

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[Brookster123]

I know nothing about Rams, but I looked up "angel ram" due to the controversy and I didn't see any balloon fish. I saw pictures of Rams with long fins.


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Otherwise known as "long finned gbr or blue rams"

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[PoppaRyno]

Of course ive heard of bolivian rams

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[coralbandit]

A Blue ram is different. Angel rams are different

Hasn't anyone head of a Bolivian Ram? Microgeophagus altispinosa (This isn't an angel ram though)

The picture on live aquaria looks like a poor example of any thing.
They are all supposedly Mikrogeophagus ramirezi still?
The Longfinned on other links look pretty .
I think the name is SMOKE!

Andy said I could name mine whatever I want,and by law in 2 more similar results I think I can....But seriously?

The fry remain with my separated pair of golds in the (1/2 filled )29g!
Eggs in the 30B also but I will at best be able to pull another bonded pair,I expect nothing from these eggs.

 

[coralbandit]

God I despise named corals....

Reminds me of the 90s when we had LFS saying "This is the True Blue Mobious Dirty Sanchez Fireblaster Zoanthid LE" Limited edition until the next shipment.

Come on. Zoanthids should be classified by their Genus species base color, polyp color, and center coloration not something like Jason Fox Superman Iceblaster Elite
Taken from one of your marine outburst!


From one who spouts this you need to explain even further your "Angel Ram"?
This would be one clear example of why you have to deal with this!
If a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing your NUCLEAR dude!
Get a grip,open your eyes and join the world of the rest of us inperfect people.
It has to be lonely and totally frustrating to be the only one who is right?
Who has new gold babies?????
I got new gold babies!!!!
No other will beat them I welcome all challengers!
Who is live aquaria?
Find out who Central Gardens are and then maybe you'll have a clue.

 

[coralbandit]

You should dance, bro. Your killin it wit dem rams right now. MAD KUDOS. You must name the first gold male, GOLDEN BOY. Lol

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Thanks man!
Hopping to get some survivors from this group!
The color variation has sparked a little positive energy into my all to busy days!
Too cool to get recognized by fellow breeders!


Golden Boy Ryno it will be!( GBR)
He already is!!!

 

[PoppaRyno]

Did a lil research... All they are is a veil fin ram... Aka angel rams and ahem.... Still mikrogeophagus ramerzi. Ok now thats out da way. A lil knowledge for the true heads.

The asians first bred the colorful version we aquarium keepers know. It was refined in germany and pumped to the masses as german blue rams.

Papiliochromis ramerzi - original name
Apistogramma ramerzi-
Accepted name
Mikrogeophagus ramerzi
Presently correct name

Presenting the ram. The fish caught in the wild in south america arrived in europe after the colorful asian bred fish. Unfortunately these products of hard working asian breeders are nit as similar as people think to the original fish, as seen in the developement if color forms. The "Golden Ram" is an example of this. But its health seems rather unstable, although not always the case, its mostly the case. There is no problem distinguishing between the sexes in adult fish. Females are smaller in comparison to males, Have less extended fin membranes and shorter fin rays at the front of the dorsal fin, and alsohave shorter ventral and anal fins.

Mikrogeophagus ramerzi has 7 faint vertical stripes. On the 2nd stripe there is a dark side spot of varying strength on the level of the barely visible lateral stripe. There are 13-14 dorsalfin rays and 11-12 pectoral fin rays.

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[PoppaRyno]

They are found in the steppe areas west of the orinoco in venezuela and colombia. The ram is a savannah fish fellas. There found in a dusty wasteland on tributary oasis pools/ponds/lakes and small streams. Main distribution area is between the large rio manacacias and smaller rio yacao.

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[PoppaRyno]

So to sum up. All these different rams are really a morph. or in the case of the balloon ram, an abomination. The "gold ram" color morph has been happening for a while. Just rarely seen as a "color strain" as genetics are so weak it rarely seems to pass on for long. Not to say i think corals not on to something with his awsome endeavors. " prove them wrong sir". The angel ram was just a trait bred out much like weve seen in veil angelfish. Hence the nickname angel ram or veil ram, but its still just a GBR, MICROGEOPHAGUS RAMERZI. simple as that. Thanks for letting me sound off. Hope this clears some air. I had to get out my old research books to find all that suppirting information.

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[PoppaRyno]

Alot of that info came from my studies of the research papers written by Horst Linke & Wolfgang staeck about their expiditions to study these fish between 1980-82. Can even give you the weather on their tril. Lol.

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[PoppaRyno]

So to me coral it seems that if you can keep this line going, healthy and producing a good amount of "gold rams" from the fry then you could be sailing uncharted oceans.... You da man.

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[Gillie]

They are found in the steppe areas west of the orinoco in venezuela and colombia. The ram is a savannah fish fellas. There found in a dusty wasteland on tributary oasis pools/ponds/lakes and small streams. Main distribution area is between the large rio manacacias and smaller rio yacao.

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It's not a dusty wasteland. The Los Ilanos is actually a very lush plains region used by cattle ranchers, but has little to no tree cover which is why they need the higher temps.

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[PoppaRyno]

Yes there are spots of lush which is why i said the oasis streams/ponds etc.... Which tend to be in the region you said. Also since these research findings alot has changed. Its been 40 yrs. Im no expert, but believe the scientists... and the members.... I can site the original staeck/linke research expidition papers.

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