I Can't Believe What I Just HEARD at My LFS!

[Twoapennything]

Piggybacking on Lowryder's post about seeing the alligator at his LFS, today I spent about an hour and a half at my LFS and I was really appalled at the cycling advice the guy working the fish room was giving out to these two guys who wanted to stock their uncycled tank with some kind of mini sharks.

LFS Guy advised the two dudes about the Nitrogen Cycle, but he went on to suggest that the guys go ahead and stock their tank anyway, and to "start with some cheap, easily disposable fish" - in other words, fish that it didn't matter if they died from the nitrogen cycling. He said nothing about PWCs, but kind of offhandedly suggested that "after a few weeks" the guys might want to get a test kit and check out what's going on with their tank water. Or, he said, the guys could bring in a baggie of water to the LFS and they would test it for them. I thought it was terrible that LFS Guy thought it was no big deal to subject any kind of fish to death by ammonia or nitrite poisoning. I'm doing both a fishless and fishful cycle right now, and I'm constantly worrying about the fish who are having to endure the nitrogen cycle, doing PWCs every day, testing the water every day, monitoring the heat, etc.

LFS Guy also said, while the two guys were picking out cheap-o fish, "Oh, I can't sell you that one; it's got spots." Meaning Ich. He was so nonchalant about it! Now I'm thinking I know why my black molly picked up a parasite - it must have come into the tank with the fish I bought at the LFS.

I really want to support my LFS because I believe in patronizing local businesses whenever possible (i.e. not chains, like Petsmart or WalMart). But now I'm reluctant to go back there because of this. Also - and I hate to say it - the mark-up on the prices is quite significant. I had an Aqua Clear filter on my list of items to pick up, but it was $60.00! Like, what? That's insane! I also had to pick up a replacement API nitrate kit - we're talking just the nitrate solutions here, not the entire kit - and that cost me $16.00. I found the same item on Amazon for $6.74, and with shipping it was around $10.00. While I did pick up a few items and got some nifty new rocks for my 40 gal., I ended up going to PetCo, where I got the Aqua Clear 30 (formerly the Aqua Clear 150) for $33.99.

I wanted to say something to those two guys who buying bags of sacrificial fish, but I lost sight of them.

I can't believe that a LFS that has been in business for over 40 years would encourage cycling a tank with fish in it. It was really disappointing to witness.

ETA: I tried ordering the nitrate kit from Amazon, but it was backordered and I needed it immediately. I tried really hard not to pay $16.00 for it!

 

[Aquarium1]

That's sad. Very sad. But I'm not surprised. Many Lfs's around the country, if not the globe, give out advice like that. Sadly, not much we can do about it except try to spread the word about cycling, and this forum of course lol.

 

[dkpate]

I hope they don't get ich in their tanks! Poor little fish.

 

[jessibell]

yes our pet store is bonkers with their prices too, even though they are a chain (Petland) It comes from being the only pet store for 350 miles in all directions. Their stuff is easily twice the price of walmart. Though I have to say, some of their products are far superior. Some. Other things I always buy at walmart. As much as I want to support small stores and local biz, I'm not going to pay an extra 30 bucks for something like a filter just for charity. I'd rather donate 30 bucks to the local food bank if you know what I mean.

 

[jessibell]

to defend them, though, their fish manager at petland is very educated and experienced and doesn't have a problem with speaking her mind when it comes to the health and care of the fish she sells. She has saved me from several dumb mistakes that would have been devistating for my fish but a nice cash collection for the store.

 

[harmy4993]

i dont know why it surprises people when stores dont know about or dont talk about fishless cycling. heck most people who come on to the forum for the first time dont know it. if they arent educated on it how are they going to know. they are ruining a buisness. they prolly make more from people who buy fish once and quit then people who buy regually and shop around for the best deal. thats not to say there isnt good fish stores out there but mostly its people who are trying to make a little bit of money. i agree the fishless cycle thing is the way to go but it seems to be mostly a internet thing. ive never heard it talked about in a fish store.

plus if you felt so strongly about it you could have excused your self into the conversation and told them about fishless cycling and the benifits.

 

[Aquarium1]

also, a pet store isn't going to want to tell people they need to wait to buy fish. A lot of people want to buy their fish then, while they're at the store, not wait for a cycle. If that store wouldn't let em, they'd go to one that would. If only some people were more patient lol.

 

[CA_BroncoFan]

I don't doubt that a lfs employee would give bad advice as it happens when your only getting paid min wage. Some people also think a lot differently than most of us do and some people just don't know because their being fed crap like that. I try to support my lfs but prices are waayyyy higher for certain things so I just try to price out different things to get while I'm there.

 

[dkpate]

Well, I had to learn and CHOSE to learn what would be needed in my jobs. The LEAST the people working in the LFS could do is SOME research. Man...

 

[Mitchell0605]

I agree with that.

 

[Lowryder]

I don't doubt that a lfs employee would give bad advice as it happens when your only getting paid min wage.

Thats exactly it, you get what you pay for. Not to mention, LFS dont make money when someone does a fishless cycle.

 

[Twoapennything]

to defend them, though, their fish manager at petland is very educated and experienced and doesn't have a problem with speaking her mind when it comes to the health and care of the fish she sells. She has saved me from several dumb mistakes that would have been devistating for my fish but a nice cash collection for the store.

There's a guy at one of the Petsmarts - well, two guys, actually - who are knowledgeable about fish and have given me sound advice. One guy was honest about the Biowheel filter and told me that I don't have to change it frequently, and that his Biowheel in his personal tank had been going for a year and he hadn't changed it out. He also has warned me about overstocking the tank and of mismatching fish that would be incompatible. Bless him, he talked me out of getting a needlenose for my 40gal, telling me it would grow to be huge, lol! The other guy is knowledgeable about fishless cycling and recommends it openly, even though it means the loss of an immediate sale. He also mentioned that he believes Prime is the superior water conditioner (I hope I don't start a war about water conditioners here). But, I respect those two guys for their knowledge, and it's why I will patronize that one particular Petsmart store for fish stuff.

 

[Twoapennything]

i dont know why it surprises people when stores dont know about or dont talk about fishless cycling.

I never said I was surpised. I said I was appalled and disappointed!

plus if you felt so strongly about it you could have excused your self into the conversation and told them about fishless cycling and the benifits.

Yes, I could have. My point is that I shouldn't have to. KWIM?

 

[Twoapennything]

Thats exactly it, you get what you pay for. Not to mention, LFS dont make money when someone does a fishless cycle.

That's exactly what I was thinking as I was listening to the whole thing. And I think you're totally right in where the LFSs are coming from. It's wrong, but it is what it is. Thing is, it seems that LFSs could turn a profit if they built a solid customer base by giving excellent advice and having healthy stock. In the instance of the two guys yesterday, if a fishless cycle had been discussed, the store could have perhaps sold the guys a water testing kit, some Prime, some of that Cycle Bio stuff, etc, and made more of a profit off those products than a couple bags of cheap fish.

Of course, as someone mentioned, people will do what they want, and when people are all charged up about getting their fish tank started and stocked, they very well might just go down the road to PetCo or whatever and just buy the fish anyway. Sad, but true!

 

[Wary]

I'm very, very lucky to have such a stellar LFS. Family owned, and running for more than 20 years. As happy as they are to make a sale, they're always certain to stop me from making purchases that are not right for my tank, on those occasions when my enthusiasm grows too vast.

Between them & this forum, I have managed to build and maintain a very happy tank, far beyond anything I could have managed left to my own fool devices.

 

[CA_BroncoFan]

I can't even begin to think how hard it would be to create a good fish store but the problem is some people do it to turn a profit in an industry that could become a gold mine, but these people don't realize how much upkeep you need. I mean I have a decent fish store where I can get some off the shelf stuff that chains don't carry but even he dosent do a great job of maintaining his stock. He does give good deals and actually has like 8 100+ gal tanks at his house so you know he's dedicated to the hobby but it just all comes from the actual passion to want to provide great service/advice and product. Unfortunately you can't always get that.

 

[cabezon]

twoapenny. prime is great. and you dont ever need to change a biowheel unless it breaks.

it's too bad about the economy. A wonderful LFS had to close shop, and some less desireable ones stay open by having bad practices. Although it eventually catches up with them.

 

[Fishyfriend09]

I'm very, very lucky to have such a stellar LFS. Family owned, and running for more than 20 years. As happy as they are to make a sale, they're always certain to stop me from making purchases that are not right for my tank, on those occasions when my enthusiasm grows too vast.

Between them & this forum, I have managed to build and maintain a very happy tank, far beyond anything I could have managed left to my own fool devices.

I also have a pretty darn good LFS, even when i started out they didn't take advantage and actually did recommend i did a fishless cycle and kept checking my water for me until it was how it should have been. Not once have they steered me wrong which is why i will always go to them before anywhere else =)

 

[DragonFish71]

You should go to Aqua Imports or Exotic Aquatics in Boulder, or Sherman Tank in Denver. Those are the only 3 places I know of who will refuse to sell fish to "new tank" people. They will ask how long the tank has been set up, how big it is and what type of fish you have before helping you. I heard them tell someone that they will not sell them fish until that tank has been cycled and offered to test the water on a daily basis for free (they would go to the person's house if need be) Of course, I'm sure some folks lie, but you get the idea.


But, Aqua and Exotic are kinda pricey. Sherman's I haven't been to in years, they might even be for crap these days. I do know they were good. Sadly the chains do have better prices on some things. For everything else, I try to order from Fosters/Smith.

 

[jestes]

There's three LFS' here in Memphis. Two are great, the other needs to be shut down... I went into the bad one and found 5 full-grown Pacus in a 55 gallon along with a 2 foot redtail catfish...

However, the other two are great. The store I get almost everything from quarantines for at least 5 days before they sell the fish. Sometimes they quarantine for several weeks if it's a wild caught, or delicate species. I've seen them turn paying customers away after finding a sick fish in a tank that had already passed quarantine. My only gripe about them is that they are WAY overpriced on their hardware. I'm assuming that they charge full retail. Not such a big deal on a $3 thermometer, but it's a very big deal when they charge $279 for a Magnum 350....

The other store does almost all reef and pond stuff, but they are getting into the tropical freshwater and plant side of things though. I think they must have been into freshwater in the past though because they know alot about it, even though their selection is limited. Plus they carry the entire Seachem line.

Not to hijack the thread, but I'm just trying to say that there are some good LFS' still out there. I run into the same thing with the radio control airplane/helicopter hobby. It's easy to think the hobby is going downhill after an incident like that, but more and more threads like this keep popping up. I think before too long, people are going to really stop supporting bad stores and start making really sure they support the good ones.