Need help establishing a buffer.

[gfink]

My tank has an unstable pH, and I understand the need to create a chemical buffer to help keep the tank "centered". (ah bringing back bad chemistry memories) I know that my water kH is low, so I need to add something to create the buffer. One product I came across is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Proper pH® 7.0. I know this is a phosphate buffer, so it would mess with plants. I don't plan on getting any real plants in the near future, but I may want to someday.

What do you recommend?

Here are my water parameters:

Tank:
pH=6.6
ammonia=0
nitrites=0
nitrates=0-5
kH= 0-40
GH=75

Tap water after sitting for 24 hours:
pH=7.0
kH=0-40
GH=75

 

[TankGirl]

Crushed coral placed in your filter, or used as a substrate, will buffer your water very gradually and is almost maintenance free. It is not impacted by water changes, and therefore less subject to human error in terms of dosing. You could also consider an aragonite sand substrate, as is used in marine setups.

You could also get a bunch of seashells for decoration and it might do a similar thing, but it will take a while for that to take effect. The greater surface area of the CC in the filter with water flowing over and through it will work more effectively. This will likely be all you need to do, at least it has worked for me!

 

[gfink]

In the long term....I like the idea of not utilizing buffer powders and pH drops to maintain the tank, so I may give your idea a try.

About the coral, I was under the impression that adding that would bring my pH closer to a marine ph like 8.2 I currently have an Eclipse 3 type hood, and there isn't much filter volume there to play around with, so I would probably mix it in with my substrate.

Also, if I do this, should I use pH up (if needed) to keep the pH around 7 until the buffer can take effect?

 

[Menagerie]

Also, if I do this, should I use pH up (if needed) to keep the pH around 7 until the buffer can take effect?

When you say "unstable," do you mean the pH moves around, or that you believe it is too low? Also, do a quick little test for us. Leave a cup of tap water out overnight to allow the gases to equilibrate. Test the pH in the moring and let us know.

 

[gfink]

Is your little emoticon telling me that pH up is bad? Why?

By unstable, I mean that it has been moving around.

I posted the overnight water values at the top.
Tap water after sitting for 24 hours:
pH=7.0
kH=0-40
GH=75

 

[Menagerie]

No, don't add chemicals, that can cause an even bigger swing in pH, since the buffering capacity of the water is so low. Going with the natural route is better because it is gradual. I completely agree with TG when she said, "It is not impacted by water changes, and therefore less subject to human error in terms of dosing."

I posted the overnight water values at the top.

Sorry, I'm in the midst of writting a paper and trying to help.

The CC will not affect the pH that much, especially if it is in the substrate, although it may bring the kh up a tad.
How much does the pH change on it's own? Is it related to PWC?

 

[gfink]

How much does the pH change on it's own? Is it related to PWC?

Well, I guess it is too early to tell as my tank just finished cycling, but it seems to fall to below 6.5 even though my tap water is 7.0 after sitting out overnight.

 

[BASSNMAN]

I found an article by George Booth. He advised that one teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate will raise 50 liters of water 4 degrees KH but will not change general hardness. Two teaspoons of calcium carbonate per 50 liters will raise both KH and GH 4 degrees. Are you using co2?. This will lower your ph. Very soft water tends to cause ph shifts, especially if you have plants.

 

[Wolfspyder]

I purchased a product called pH Stabilizer from Nutrafin. It is a KH booster and it has worked for me nicely, without messing with the other water quailities. Not sure if that is what you are looking for, or if it is really a good idea to use it as I am a newbe to the fish tank thing

 

[BrianNY]

OK. You've asked some excellent questions here gfink. My tap water seems almost identical to yours. I use cc in all of my tanks. I keep discus and do alot of water changes so having the pH bouncing around would be a disaster. IME, the use of cc is the only way I've found to buffer my tanks for an extended period of time.

I'm sure the product you mention Wollfspyder (I like that nic) , works but you'll have to keep up the usage as the effect will gradually wear off.

The other thing I've discovered is that using the cc does in fact raise the pH. I'm not the least bit concerned about that because stable pH is what I'm shooting for. Not some ideal pH number. Even with discus.

 

[gfink]

ok, so if I go with the crushed coral....any guidelines for how much to mix into my substrate? 10% 50%? one handful per tank?

 

[TankGirl]

I'd go with 50/50 right now and see what happens. If you have a pH in the mid 6's you are not going to have a pH of 8 with CC, though it will raise it up a bit, but more importantly it will raise your KH. It may take a week or so but I'm very interested in your results.

Sodium bicarb will indeed work but it is something you have to dose religiously with every water change, and you have to be sure and maintain a very regular water change schedule. The CC is more of a "set it and forget it" method - I'm all about that!

BTW, there are a couple of very interesting pH threads in Monster Island if you want to check them out, as KH and pH go hand in hand.

 

[gfink]

I realized that there may be a few other factors involved in this pH issue. I just finished cycling the tank so the filter and the gravel have been getting nasty. Of course you don't want to clean this stuff up during cycling becasue you want to establish your bacteria. Well, isn't it also true that pH will fall as wastes build up in the tank? This could explain why my pH keeps drifting down.

So my approach is as follows:
1) Now that cycling is done, replace filter with a new one. (leave biowheel of course!!)
2) Leave gravel alone for another week or so so i don't disturb too much of my new bacteria.
3) I added some crushed coral in a filter bag near my pump intake, so there should be plenty of flow. I am using a bag, because it will let me easliy pull it out if I want to. I also chose to start out with a small amount to see what happens, and if needed, work up to 50/50 mixture as Tankgirl suggested.

Ahh fun little experiments.

 

[TankGirl]

Definitely fun experiments are in order here! That's the only way I have found to learn what is going on, because as you say there are lots of factors involved with most tank issues.

IME, the drop in pH won't occur for quite some time after the tank is mature - but I have hard water anyway so it may not be relevant in your case. Keep us posted.

 

[MarkLehr]

Brian, I could not agree more with any comments anyone has ever said about fishkeeping. IME, most who mess with pH Up/Down products and artificial buffer powders are just asking for trouble. They create a very unstable environment. Truth be know, most fish will tolerate a pretty wide range of pH readings, and you should be after consistancy more than anything.

If i had this tank, i would be happy with a 6.6 pH and look to stock the aquarium with fish that enjoy that level of pH. Most fish will do just fine at 6.6.
If i felt the desire to raise my pH, I would do exactly as Brian recommends with the crushed coral.