New Tank with high KH and PH levels

[fd1906]

How can I lower the KH and PH values. How long should I wait before intervening. I just started the tank cycle 1 day ago, but I want to make sure the levels go down in a timely fashion.

 

[Zic]

These two values are very closely related. Although they measure two different things, they can be tied together. In my tank, I could not figure out why my Ph was sky high. I added Ph down until my fish started swimming in a big "STOP IT!" formation. Turns out, my hardness was also sky high. It was acting as a buffer, which was keeping my Ph very high. I could have bought a RO filter or bought distilled water. I didn't want to do either (ROs are expensive and lugging water from the store wasn't in my plan book). So I have learned to live with my high Ph, and my fish have as well. It's been running since December and the fish are doing fine.

If you have a fish that requires a certain Ph (not just one that PREFERS a certain Ph), or if you were running a saltwater tank, you'd have to do something, but with most FW fish, you should be ok.

 

[Biggen]

When you say sky high, what are your exact values?

Fish can't sense KH, so that being high or low doesn't matter. PH on the other hand can affect the inhabitants of the tank but we need to know what that pH value is.

However, to answer your question, you can mix distilled or reverse osmosis water in with your normal water you use for your tank. This would bring down both the KH and pH levels.

But I recommend you wait on that and get back to us with those pH values. Messing with the water's chemistry is a lot tricker than one may think.

 

[fd1906]

Thanks for the replies,

My PH was at 7.8 (not sky high) but KH was over 220.

 

[Biggen]

You are fine with those values and don't need to adjust them. Over time, your pH will fall as your tanks cycles because of the natural part of the nitrification cycle. Your KH is also great. I wish my tap water came out with ~6 dKH like yours. Instead I get a dinky 1.5 dKH.

 

[fd1906]

Cool, thanks. How does KH affect fish and plants?

 

[fd1906]

Also, I did another test for PH today and I can't tell whether it is at 7.6 or 8.8, I ran both high range and regular ph tests and can't tell which one is right. The colors are very similar to those on both charts.

 

[Catalina]

Yea, I must tell you that biggen is right. When you mean that your tank has just started cycling, do you mean that you have just set it up with fish in it? If so, when you begin to get further along in the cycle, like when you start registering high nitrites, your ph will go down. Both my tanks had a dramatic drop in PH from when I set them up until now(2 months later.) If you're really worried that the fish are uncomfortable, you can try doing your 20% water changes with distilled water. But don't use any PH altering chemicals or anything, because the most important thing is that there is not an abrupt change that puts the fish into ph shock.

 

[Spy_90]

using distilled or RO water is the only thing that will bring your PH down. With that high of a KH any PH down products are just gonna get ripped apart =)
I agree with Catalina with 20% water changes with distilled till you get a PH that you want : )

As for different values in PH tests. I have the AP master test kit, and my high level reads the lowest value possable (7.8) and my regular level test reads as high as possable (7.4). I'm not sure which is correct, as the manual says that when the tests hit their endpoints they are not reliable. But i'm guessing my PH is between 7.4 and 7.8 (which are both ok PHs in my books). I hope this helps with your regular PH and high range PH tests questions.

 

[Biggen]

How does KH affect fish and plants?

It doesn't... KH is the measure of buffering capacity of water. Fish can't sense this so it doesn't matter to them. KH relates to pH in that when, typically, KH falls, pH will also fall with it and when KH goes up, pH will also go up with it.

Go here http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html for a good primer in water chemistry.

Again, don't try to adjust these right now. Your levels are great.

 

[shawmutt]

Just a stupid question...a kH level of around 6(%, if it's not % you're talking about, let me know) isn't bad at all, as a matter of fact, mine is still hovering around 4% as I'm trying to drop it. But at 4% my pH is around 6.6. Could there be something else affecting the pH?

 

[Biggen]

(%, if it's not % you're talking about, let me know

Actually, it degrees not percentages. For example, you have 6 dKH. Degrees is the old German way of referring to KH and GH. One degree is equal to 17.8 ppm of CaCO3. So another way of stating your KH level would be 106.8 ppm CaCO3.

But at 4% my pH is around 6.6. Could there be something else affecting the pH?

It's possible but not all that likely. With 4 dKH, you still have sufficient buffering capacity to keep your pH from dropping to low. I have found that with as little as 1dKH, it still may be enough to prevent pH swings. It really depends on how much acid the water is taking.

If you are intent of lowering your pH, than you might decide mixing RO or distilled water in with your regular water changes.

 

[Biggen]

I screwed up earlier when I told fd1906 about his KH. I told him he had 5.5 dKH when in fact, according to his 220 ppm data, he actually has around ~12 dKH. Don't know how I messed up those numbers. My mistake.

Anyway, that still won't have much of an effect on anything. His pH may not drop much, even with the passage of time and the nitrification cycle, but this pH is still great to keep the majority of fish in.

 

[shawmutt]

Ok...now my head is sufficiently spinning . I meant degrees...and the 12 degrees makes more sense. I also managed to forget the fact that I use co2 and that adds to the acid .

 

[reberly]

Also, if you want to lower KH, I've heard Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Water Softener Pillow works well, you just have to buy two and recharge them.

Ryan

 

[Biggen]

Also, if you want to lower KH, I've heard Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Water Softener Pillow works well,

Actually, I believe, this will only affect the GH of the water, not the KH. The pillow removes all the heavy metals and minerals that make water hard.

KH is a term that shouldn't be used any longer as people get it confused with GH. KH isn't even a measure the water's "hardness" even though it stands for Carbonate Hardness. I think we should all make an effort to substitute the word "alkalinity" for KH as KH is the old school name.

Those darn pesky Germans and their acronyms.