I am Slowly Murdering my Coral

[severum mama]

We had TERRIBLE luck with Red Sea salt a few years back (not the Coral Pro, though). It didn't kill our corals, but caused such a ridiculous explosion of algae growth that we were barely able to get it under control. We liked Oceanic and Aquavitro Salinity and didn't have any trouble with those. Just grasping at straws here.

Also, I'm assuming that you have checked your RO/DI water with a TDS meter, just in case?

 

[Wy Renegade]

Sounds like you may have multiple issues. Since the lights are apparently so strong, one of the things I would suggest is a significant acclimiation perior any time you purchase a coral. Buy some fiberglass screen and cut three sheets to the size of your aquarium top. Any time you purchase a new coral, place all three sheets on top of the aquarium (plenty of light will still get through). After a couple days to a week, remove one of the sheets, another couple days to a week remove the next sheet, and after another couple days to a week remove the last sheet. This will give your coral plenty of time to light acclimate.

When you drip acclimate for 1 to 1.5 hours, what are you doing to ensure that temperature stays high, and where are you dripping to? corals could be suffering from low temperature or from being exposed to too much light when you are dripping. Are you temperature acclimating prior to dripping? If so are you doing so under full lighting or how are you doing it.

What about your flow? How much flow do you have moving through the system? Both zoas and xenia prefer higher flow rates. When you say that nutrient levels are a zero, how are you accomplishing this? Both zoas and xenia use nutrients, so they prefer to have some present in the water. Zero nitrates can cause both types of corals to decline.

How often are you doing water changes? I founds that zoas in particular did much better when I was doing frequent, large scale water changes (50% daily or weekly). I suspect the depletion of some trace element that we don't test for.

In regards to iodine, don't dose without a test kit. Lugals in particular is a very strong iodine supplement, and dosing too much is lethal to most corals.

 

[fort384]

Randy, thanks for joining in!!

In regards to acclimation I just drip into a bucket of water. No light and no heat. Room temp is generally 75-76F. I would find it hard to believe acclimation is the problem since it has taken months for the decline of most of my coral. The only things that died within a few days were 2 hammers. Everything else was opening up fine and seemed ok for a few weeks before starting to decline.

As for nitrates I just have chaeto in the sump. It grows like crazy. No algae really in the tank save a small amount of Valonia that I can't seem to get rid of.

As for flow I have 2 MP10s running on Ecosmart at around 50-60% of max.

I perform a 10-15% water change every week generally though I have skipped some weeks here or there. I run at 1.025SG using red sea coral pro. With the tiny amount of coral actually pulling nutrients in the tank I would think that would be enough to replenish trace elements. Maybe not? I have talked to a member here in chat who has a beautiful zoa tank and hasn't done a water change in over a year. I have heard zoas like dirty water... But then this wouldn't account for the death of the trumpet, fauvia, acan, sympodium, or some of the others.

I think my issue is a combo of light and maybe iodine... But I don't know if it's too much or too little light. I talked to a guy who has beautiful coral and he runs his single Sol pod at 95% over a 30. Surely then running 2 pods at 40% over a 60 at 14" above the water isn't too much light? But I don't know.

 

[fort384]

We had TERRIBLE luck with Red Sea salt a few years back (not the Coral Pro, though). It didn't kill our corals, but caused such a ridiculous explosion of algae growth that we were barely able to get it under control. We liked Oceanic and Aquavitro Salinity and didn't have any trouble with those. Just grasping at straws here.

Also, I'm assuming that you have checked your RO/DI water with a TDS meter, just in case?

I do check the TDS meter each time I fill my holding containers. Output is still running at 0 TDS.

As for the salt maybe it could be a problem. Unfortunately I just bought a second bucket of it that I haven't even opened yet so it will be a bit yet before I could change to something else.

 

[fort384]

I also just thought of something else... I am using a refractometer to measure SG. Maybe it is off? Can I calibrate it to 0 just using RO water?

 

[nikki_kaiser]

If you've not used anything with iodine in it and you've done plenty of water changes, wouldn't it be gone or is iodine one of those supplements that keeps giving?

 

[fort384]

Lugols is iodine. It has been a couple of months but prior to that I was dosing it with every water change. I haven't added coral since I was dosing it so maybe I permanently ruined the coral with it?

 

[nikki_kaiser]

I wouldn't think it's permanent. Hmmm...I will research it as well! LOL! I seriously don't know much about iodine dosing etc. so I suppose it would be a good thing to look up!

 

[Bearchumjs]

I do check the TDS meter each time I fill my holding containers. Output is still running at 0 TDS.

As for the salt maybe it could be a problem. Unfortunately I just bought a second bucket of it that I haven't even opened yet so it will be a bit yet before I could change to something else.

If you haven't opened it see if you can return it.

 

[severum mama]

I also just thought of something else... I am using a refractometer to measure SG. Maybe it is off? Can I calibrate it to 0 just using RO water?

Maybe it is off. I can't remember if you can calibrate it with RO/DI or if you need the "calibration solution." I used to take my refracto to the lfs to check it against the boss's.

Lugols is iodine. It has been a couple of months but prior to that I was dosing it with every water change. I haven't added coral since I was dosing it so maybe I permanently ruined the coral with it?

Is there something else you could try for dipping the coral? Maybe Coral RX is easier on them? I really don't know because I haven't used either product. I never dipped our corals. We did end up with a nasty case of flatworms at one point but honestly, I'd take that over what you're going through. We never lost any coral as a result of flatworms. I'm not saying don't dip them, I'm just saying.
We also didn't dose anything and had a few sps that did quite well, in addition to plenty of softies and lps. I'm of the school of thought that one shouldn't dose anything you aren't testing for... and I'm not sure dosing iodine would really be necessary for your tank. Not saying it isn't, but you've pretty much covered all the usual bases, so like I mentioned I'm basically grasping at straws.

 

[Keithhjs]

Ok so at the risk of be ostracized on this forum here goes:
I dose iodine (not lugols I think Kent or seachem) few drops daily. I don't think it's your iodine. In fact some people such as written in Anthony Calfo's "book of coral propagation" in fact recommend dosing it daily. I also feed corals daily. Im not sure your setup but I run two skimmers so I can handle overfeeding. In fact I feed my fish 2-3 times daily. Yes people I said daily. Also don't know what the lights were on in the tanks you got your coral from but as I've stated I added mine directly to 70-90% strength AIs. Most of the frags i got tho came outta tanks with MH or AIs. 90% of my corals are growing fast and the few that aren't are things like a Goniopora (bad decision coral to add) in a too heavy current area. I'm not sold it's your light. Do you check your mag levels? I looked at your pics from profile & I don't see a lot (I see few rocks with it) coraline algae. Maybe old pics idk just a thought, maybe mag is off? I would switch salts and see if that helps, feed the corals, make sure I had an awesome skimmer, and add iodine. (I also dose other crap too, lol but that's me). And as for your refractometer, yeah if you zero it on RO water it should be good. Maybe have your LFS or a friend check it on theirs.

 

[Wy Renegade]

Happy to join, personally I'd start skipping the hour to hour and half of drip acclimation, its not necessary, and you're simply stressing your corals out. Start by temperature acclimation by floating the bags in the sump or tank with the lights off, add Lugals to the bag per the direction if you have enough water (if not drop them in a container of tank water after acclimating as follows, then add the Lugals), then remove the coral from the bag, hold it in the air for a slow count of 30 (so the polyps all close up), and drop it into the tank. Over all the years I've been doing this, I've never lost a single coral due to acclimation.

Try the screen and see if that helps the lighting issue. Kents or other iodine additives are signifiantly weaker than Lugals. Whatever you do, don't dose Lugals on a daily or even weekly basis. Factually, if you're keeping up on your water changes, you don't need to dose anything.

If you suspect something is missing, pick up a small container of another salt, and do a large scale water change (50%) immediately, and then continue with weekly 50% or even daily 50% water changes and see if things improve. If they don't, its not the salt or missing trace elements and you're back to the lighting as the culprite.

 

[Qube]

Ok so at the risk of be ostracized on this forum here goes:
I dose iodine (not lugols I think Kent or seachem) few drops daily. I don't think it's your iodine. In fact some people such as written in Anthony Calfo's "book of coral propagation" in fact recommend dosing it daily. I also feed corals daily. Im not sure your setup but I run two skimmers so I can handle overfeeding. In fact I feed my fish 2-3 times daily. Yes people I said daily. Also don't know what the lights were on in the tanks you got your coral from but as I've stated I added mine directly to 70-90% strength AIs. Most of the frags i got tho came outta tanks with MH or AIs. 90% of my corals are growing fast and the few that aren't are things like a Goniopora (bad decision coral to add) in a too heavy current area. I'm not sold it's your light. Do you check your mag levels? I looked at your pics from profile & I don't see a lot (I see few rocks with it) coraline algae. Maybe old pics idk just a thought, maybe mag is off? I would switch salts and see if that helps, feed the corals, make sure I had an awesome skimmer, and add iodine. (I also dose other crap too, lol but that's me). And as for your refractometer, yeah if you zero it on RO water it should be good. Maybe have your LFS or a friend check it on theirs.

"ostracized" on a forum?? I agree with with this post on several fronts. Yes, your refractometer can be calibrated with RODI, so check that first. Second, if you have a ton of corals, dosing iodine can be beneficial, but you gotta test for it first. That said, you may still have some lingering issues with dosing Lugol's, as that is pretty strong stuff. Lastly, check your Mg levels. I had a Duncan that didn't open for months and a torch that barely opened at all, I got a Mg test kit as a last resort, and there it was. My Mg was at past 1600 which was the max for my kit. Turns out, I had a particularly potent bag of Reef Crystals, which is known for being on the low side for Mg. trashed that batch of salt, got a new batch, tested it and after a few water changes, my Duncan and Torch were back to normal.

It's painful to watch all of your hard work dissolving in front of you, but I think you will find your culprit soon enough.

 

[furrymurray]

I have a thought. Do you think it could be "chemical warfare" between your corals in your water column? Have you tried running some carbon to help with this? I have two AI nanos (maxed out at 65%) on a 58g and a mp10. So I dont think its a lack of light or flow. Just wish I could help more

 

[fort384]

First of all, I want to thank all of you for your advice and suggestions. It is a huge help, though I wish one of you could wave the magic wand and say WELL THERE's YOUR PROBLEM!

As for the salt, I really find it hard to believe that it is causing the issues. This is supposed to be the best stuff you can get, and I just spent a good deal of time looking for some negative reviews and couldn't find any. I also bought this bucket on the same day that Jonathan bought his from the same supplier, and he got fabulous growth with it. That being said, I plan to order a Mg test kit tonight and see where that leaves me. I know that my Calcium generally tests at the very high end of the scale. Hopefully the Mg is right there with it, but it is worth checking it out.

I think with the very few specimens of coral that I have left alive, I shouldn't really have to be dosing anything so long as I keep up on the water changes.

I also started up the RO tonight and will mix up another round for another water change. I will try to do several days in a row of water changes and see what happens. Unfortunately I am only setup to be able to do a ~20% max water change at a time.

As for the refractometer, I just tested it with 0 TDS RO water and it was spot on. So I don't think that is my issue, unfortunately.

Thanks Randy for the tip on acclimation. Your procedure sounds far easier than mine, and maybe that will help me be successful.

As for the question about coralline growth, the pics are when the tank was first started up, so there wasn't much. I have a ton of coralline growth on the back wall of the tank, and the live rock is also starting to get some good growth on it as well. Also, the sump is completely covered in coralline.

I have a Bubble Magus skimmer that seems to perform well. I empty out the collection cup twice a week, and it is usually between coffee and tea in color.

I feed rods reef usually about 6 out of 7 days, so there ought to be plenty of nutrients in the water. The flow seems to be adequate as I don't really get anything collecting on the sand bed, and again my nitrates stay pretty consistently at or near 0.

What I do know is that all the tinkering with the light levels the last 3 weeks or so has not had any positive effect. I just got home from work and I swear the coral looks worse again today than it looked yesterday. Seems like my zoas are all just slowly disappearing, and probably only about 20-30% of them are ever open at any given time. The only 2 specimens that seem to be thriving are the birdsnest, which has grown a new arm and probably an inch or so in 4 months, and my frogspawn, which started off rough, but after 5 months or so I have a new head on it and it opens up fully every day. The acan seems to be clinging to life, but is definitely not thriving. The fauvia and trumpets completely died, as did the xenia, 2 hammers, and a sympodium specimen. My jasmine polyps were doing great and starting to completely cover the rock I had them on, but as of late I am noticing less and less of them each day too. Sigh.

 

[Keithhjs]

I have a thought. Do you think it could be "chemical warfare" between your corals in your water column? Have you tried running some carbon to help with this? I have two AI nanos (maxed out at 65%) on a 58g and a mp10. So I dont think its a lack of light or flow. Just wish I could help more

+1. I meant to ask about that too. I do frequent water changes cuz of just that reason.

 

[fort384]

I really don't think this is the issue either. I have done frequent water changes and the sparse amount of coral in the tank leads me to think this isn't the issue. I suppose anything is possible but I think it has to be simpler than this. I am missing one really big thing here IMO.

 

[severum mama]

With the amount of coral you have in your system, I highly doubt this is the cause also, although I suppose you never know. Typically where you run into coral on coral aggression is when you have them placed too closely together from what I understand.

 

[Keithhjs]

I was under the impression that sometimes corals release toxins into the water column as in a sort of "chemical warfare" style. Not actually needing to touch to attack. I highly doubt this is causing this also, just trying to think outside the box as I would think with all the steps already taken there would be some improvement. At the end of the day I'd bet a new/different batch of salt might help.

 

[Gboy66]

I agree that most likely isnt the issue. But i applaud the idea. We all have to think outside the box in order to get down to the bottom of this!

Edit: woah we posted at the same time lol