ammonia reducing carbon giving false readings?

[ramgirl1228]

Hey guys. I've had my 16 gallon tank set up for a little over a month now. Did a dip strip test before adding fish (I now know they aren't the most accurate thing in the world and bought an API master kit). All levels were great. About a week after adding fish I had a high ammonia reading. Somewhere in the 2.0-3.0 range. Can't remember exactly.

I treated with amquel. The filter is an aquaclear 50. Didn't really do a whole lot to it after that.

A little while after that I noticed ich on one of my blue rams. Not realizing that I didn't need medication, I treated with rid ich plus and added aquarium salt.

Ever since then I have had off the charts ammonia readings. I bought an ammonia reducing carbon for my filter. I have also been doing a PWC (about 25%) daily.

Used my API kit tonight parameters were:
Ammonia 5.0
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 10
pH 6.0

So I did another PWC and treated with prime and proper pH. (First time using either product)
Question - Do you guys think that the ammonia reducing media in the filter could be giving inaccurate readings?

I'm sorry this was so long but I wanted to give as much info as possible. Also I now know that I've made quite a few mistakes along the way. Hopefully you guys can straighten me out some.
Thanks

 

[Roland6543]

I'm sure one of the cycling experts will be along soon to give you more accurate advice but until then you can safely do the following.

1. Do a large water change. Target 50% or more. Your tank is still cycling and the values are high enough to kill your fish.
2. Continue doing large water changes until your ammonia and nitrite drop to below 0.5. Twice a day if necessary.
3. You can then do fewer water changes, still 50% at a time. Every few days to get the ammonia and nitrites to below 0.25. Nitrates should be kept to less than 40 I think.
4. Every water change should be treated with Prime. If you use buckets/containers treat the volume in the container. If you add the new water directly to the tank treat FOR THE WHOLE TANK VOLUME EACH TIME. I know that sounds strange but that's what you must do.
5. Hold off on other liquid chemicals for now.

 

[blert]

"Cycling" with a GBR is going to be a trick. They can be very sensitive to water conditions.
First thing to do is shelve the "Proper pH", it's not going to help you here and most fish will adapt to what the pH of your source water is.

Next, test your source water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH, this will let you know what your possible lowest levels can be. To get the true pH put some water into a shallow bowl and let it sit for 24 hours, giving it a good stir every so often.

Cut feeding down. Very small portions daily or small portion every other day for a bit.

Do as many PWCs as necessary to get that ammonia below 0.25ppm, waiting a hour or so between water changes. Starting at 5ppm, a 75% PWC will take the ammonia down to 1.25ppm, assuming your source water has zero to start. Another 75% will then take it down to 0.31ppm. Then another 50% will take it down to 0.16ppm. With that GBR in there you are going to want to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm and the nitrate below 20ppm (preferably lower at this time but you can only do so much).

Regarding the Ick, very slowly raise the temp to 86f and use a touch of aquarium salt if you want. Get some aeration going on in the tank with an air pump and bubbler or lower the water a touch so the water from the filter breaks the surface of the water in the tank. Continue this for a week after all specks are gone. Gravel vac daily.

Once you have the ammonia down you will want to test daily (or even twice a day) and do a PWC any time the ammonia and/or nitrite get above 0.25 or the nitrate gets above 20 (GBR are not terribly tolerant of nitrate at all).

Hopefully someone else will chime in also. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[Bbarb27]

You mentioned your tank has been set up for a month or so. Did you cycle it before adding fish (add ammonia to build up the beneficial bacteria) or are you doing a fish in cycle?

Readings with amquel can be high, as it doesn't remove the ammonia from your water. But your tank could also be cycling, resulting in high ammonia readings. If you don't have an established colony of bacteria in your tank/filter to convert the ammonia that the fish produce, your ammonia levels will continue to rise until the bacterial colonies are established.

Either way, you need to keep up with frequent water changes for the sake of your fish.

 

[jlk]

"Cycling" with a GBR is going to be a trick. They can be very sensitive to water conditions.
First thing to do is shelve the "Proper pH", it's not going to help you here and most fish will adapt to what the pH of your source water is.

Next, test your source water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH, this will let you know what your possible lowest levels can be. To get the true pH put some water into a shallow bowl and let it sit for 24 hours, giving it a good stir every so often.

Cut feeding down. Very small portions daily or small portion every other day for a bit.

Do as many PWCs as necessary to get that ammonia below 0.25ppm, waiting a hour or so between water changes. Starting at 5ppm, a 75% PWC will take the ammonia down to 1.25ppm, assuming your source water has zero to start. Another 75% will then take it down to 0.31ppm. Then another 50% will take it down to 0.16ppm. With that GBR in there you are going to want to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm and the nitrate below 20ppm (preferably lower at this time but you can only do so much).

Regarding the Ick, very slowly raise the temp to 86f and use a touch of aquarium salt if you want. Get some aeration going on in the tank with an air pump and bubbler or lower the water a touch so the water from the filter breaks the surface of the water in the tank. Continue this for a week after all specks are gone. Gravel vac daily.

Once you have the ammonia down you will want to test daily (or even twice a day) and do a PWC any time the ammonia and/or nitrite get above 0.25 or the nitrate gets above 20 (GBR are not terribly tolerant of nitrate at all).

Hopefully someone else will chime in also. Good luck. Keep us posted.

+1
Excellent advice!! Please ask if you have any questions! Heres the fish-in cycle link with some more info as well:

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

 

[ramgirl1228]

Thank you guys for all the responses. Unfortunately I did not properly cycle the tank before adding fish. I am the victim of a certain chain store's employee telling me to just let it sit for a few days before adding fish. And I foolishly followed the advice.

I will continue on with the water changes and bump up the amount to about 75 or 80%.

As for the ich I stopped treating for it about a week ago as it had been a few days since I had seen any signs so I might be ok there?

I did lose one Bolivian ram throughout this ordeal. My pair of blue rams and the remaining Bolivian seem normal enough but I know they can't be too happy.

As for feeding I have cut back to every other day. And then only a tiny amount.

Should I switch out the ammonia reducing carbon in the filter for just regular carbon?

 

[blert]

...
As for the ich I stopped treating for it about a week ago as it had been a few days since I had seen any signs so I might be ok there?
...
Should I switch out the ammonia reducing carbon in the filter for just regular carbon?

Keep an eye out, hopefully it will not come back.

If it was me I would dump it, it's not really that effective. You can skip carbon altogether as it is mostly useful for removing meds. It does have a benefit or two but the cost of replacing it every couple of weeks far outweighs any benefit it might have in a freshwater aquarium, PWC are much more effective and cost less. Instead, add some ceramic bio-rings.

 

[ramgirl1228]

Ok. What are these ceramic Bio rings? Would a chain store carry them like petsmart or petco (as much as i hate to go back there) And can I just put them in the spot the carbon would normally take up in my tank?

And thanks a million for helping me out guys. I was starting to feel like I was never gonna get on top of this! I've never had a tank before and foolishly didn't do any research. At least now I think I can see a light at the end of the tunnel

 

[Bbarb27]

You are not the first (nor the last) to hear bad advice from a pet store employee. Some are incredibly knowleagable about fish, others not so much.

You can buy ceramic bio-beads at your local petco or petsmart. Aqua clear sells them in small packs that you can put in your existing filter where you currently have carbon. If you're running an aqua clear, they might already be in your filter, as I think new aqua clear filters come with a sponge, a carbon pack and a bio bead pack. They are little white beads in a mesh bag.

Good luck with completing your cycle! You're asking good questions and hopefully can find a lot of good information here and elsewhere online to help you out.

 

[blert]

Yup, just find the shelves where the AquaClears are stocked. You will see them there, you can't miss them. They sell sponges, carbon and ceramic media properly sized for each size of AquaClear. You can replace the carbon with either a sponge or bio-media whichever you choose.

 

[ramgirl1228]

Ok. I think that's what the box calls Bio max. If that's the case then is it ok to have to levels of either the foam or the Bio max? I'm sorry to keep asking seemingly stupid questions but I really have no idea what I'm doing here. And I don't want to mess up my poor tank any more than it already is.

I never understood the appeal of having a fish tank before but I'm absolutely hooked now. I adore my little fish and just wanna get their water right for them.

Thanks again guys
Y'all have been amazing

 

[blert]

Ok. I think that's what the box calls Bio max. If that's the case then is it ok to have to levels of either the foam or the Bio max?...

Yup, BioMax. You can really use any brand at all, but the AquaClear ones already come in a convenient bag of the right size to fit in your filter. You will probably never need to replace them, just give them a good shake in old tank water when you clean them. Never clean them in untreated water.

I prefer a second BioMax. A second sponge isn't really going to do much extra mechanical filtering and the BioMax has greater surface area for bio-filtering.

 

[ramgirl1228]

Ok. I did a test of my tap water and it comes back at about 0.1 for ammonia. Just did a 75% change and treated water with prime before adding. Also removed the stupid ammonia reducing insert in my filter. I now have one layer of foam and 2 layers of biomax.

I do still have a couple of questions.
1. How soon should I expect to see a lower ammonia result on a test?

2. For future reference is there an easier way to measure out prime? My tank is only 16 gallons and a full dose would only be about 1.5 mls. The cap is 5mls according to the bottle. I did my best to get it as close to 1.5 as possible. Will having a little extra hurt?

 

[blert]

Ok. I did a test of my tap water and it comes back at about 0.1 for ammonia. Just did a 75% change and treated water with prime before adding. Also removed the stupid ammonia reducing insert in my filter. I now have one layer of foam and 2 layers of biomax.

I do still have a couple of questions.
1. How soon should I expect to see a lower ammonia result on a test?

2. For future reference is there an easier way to measure out prime? My tank is only 16 gallons and a full dose would only be about 1.5 mls. The cap is 5mls according to the bottle. I did my best to get it as close to 1.5 as possible. Will having a little extra hurt?

It could be a week or two. With the GBRs I would probably be testing it two, maybe three times a day, and do a PWC when necessary.

Go to a local pharmacy and ask if you can have a 5ml medicine syringe. Most will give them away for no charge.

 

[ramgirl1228]

Ok. So I have been doing daily PWC of about 75%. Been testing twice a day. Latest test results were:

Ammonia ~3 ( maybe a little bit higher but hard to judge color exactly)
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 20
pH 7.4

Just thought I would give you guys an update since y'all have been so helpful.

I'm sticking with the water changes and I've also been gravel vaccing every night. I figured it couldn't hurt but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.