Cycling and STILL nothing happening!

[elliott_001]

I have just done my water tests (2days after adding ammonia) and the results are good, except for the nitrates being so high, but as i was doing the tests i noticed a problem. In my tank i have some pieces of slate and 1 piece of granite, since adding the ammonia there is a rustic colouration on some of the slate and on one side of the piece of granite. This has got to be some kind of reaction to the ammonia i added because i have never seen it before now. can anyone help me?

Anyway the water tests showed this;

Ammonia is gone! - 0ppm
Nitrite - between 0.25 and 0.5 ppm
Nitrate - between 75 and 100ppm!

So now i should add some more ammonia, but less than before?

 

[TomK2]

That looks like good news. I don't think that 2 ppm of ammonia can disappear without the action of bacteria. Sure, some of the ammonia might have out-gassed from the aquarium, or adsorbed to the surface of the tanks contents, but I doubt lots of it did. If it were me, I would add 1ppm today, and recheck tomorrow. I don't know what the discoloration of the slate is. Early in a tanks life, often there is a brown algae that appears transiently, perhaps this is brown algae on your slate?

If your ammonia is going to zero despite daily doses, you just have to wait for the nitrites to fall and you are ready for a PWC and fish. You will need a fairly large supply of nitrate free water to get those nitrates down. You can't use all distilled water since distilled water is lacking in micro-nutrients and elements that your fish and bacteria need. I have never had to deal with such high nitrates in tap water. You might want to start another thread with "high tap nitrates" as the title, and see what other AA users have to say .

edit: BTW - your nitrate l;evels are getting up in the range that they can possibly start to interfere with the nitrite and ammonia tests.

 

[elliott_001]

Yesterday i added some more ammonia (0.50 to 1ppm). I tested the water again today and it had all gone. I am now waiting for the nitrobacter to grow i guess? and this takes longer than the nitrosomas. Yesterday the nitrates was 0.25mg/l (btw is mg/l the same as ppm?) and today it is also 0.25mg/l.

Also there is some more algae (or at least what i think is brown algae) in the tank, now there is some on the glass as well as the rocks. Will otto's eat this type of algae? Im probably gonna get a pair, or maybe three.

 

[TomK2]

Yes, mg/L is the sames as ppm. for water, 1liter is 1000ml = 1000g (at 4degrees celcius, one atm pressure, but you get the idea) . One milligram is one onethousanths of a gram, so .001g. One milligram per liter is :
.001g in 1000ml, which is a ration of 1:1million, hence one part per million, by weight, anyway.

Enough of the math lesson, the fact that you only have 0.25 ppm of nitrite means your nitrobacter are already on the job, otherwise you would have had several mg/L by now. From my experience, in a seeded tank that is going as fast as yours, I bet your nitrite goes to zero within the week, if not within 3 days.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Yesterday i added some more ammonia (0.50 to 1ppm). I tested the water again today and it had all gone. I am now waiting for the nitrobacter to grow i guess? and this takes longer than the nitrosomas. Yesterday the nitrates was 0.25mg/l (btw is mg/l the same as ppm?) and today it is also 0.25mg/l.

The nitrite bacteria is definitely trying to play catch-up now. Just keep adding about 1ppm or so ammonia when it reaches 0ppm. It shouldn't be long now.....

 

[Lonewolfblue]

As for the brown algae, it's normal for a new tank. The ottos may eat it, but if not, it will go away on it's own as the tank matures. I had it for a few weeks past my initial cycle, then it just disappeared.

 

[Jchillin]

As for the brown algae, it's normal for a new tank. The ottos may eat it, but if not, it will go away on it's own as the tank matures.

Absolutely true. If it's an asthetic thing for you ATM, it can be removed manually, probably the easiest algae to remove.

*I took care of the code LWB.

 

[elliott_001]

Just tested my water again.
Yesterdays ammonia is gone 0ppm
nitrite is down to 0.1ppm (and its barely that!)
bloody nitrate! between 75 - 100ppm!!
(Tap nitrate = 50ppm)

Also today i noticed some snails in my tank, little buggers must have smuggled their way in on some plants i bought! My brother is pleased as he wants some for his loach in his tank. I plan to get some loach anyway, so it will be a nice couple of meals for them!

 

[TomK2]

You are just about done.

 

[elliott_001]

Great! So if by tomorrow N02 is 0ppm (which im assuming it will be), it would be ok to go out and by a couple of fish?

Just to make sure, before i do that i should do a pwc and a gravel vac. How big should water change be? Baring in mind the nitrates are high.

Im thinking i might get some little otto's first because there is a fair amount of algae they can eat.
Thanks for your help seeing me through the cycling process, glad im not going to be introducing fish into unsuitable water conditions.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

After cycled, I'd wait maybe 1 more day, adding .5-1ppm ammonia, and be sure. Then go ahead and add fish. As for the PWC, since you went fishless, no need to do gravel vac. Just do a large PWC to get nitrates down, and add some fish.

 

[TomK2]

Yes, if 1ppm of ammonia can be converted into nitrate daily, with no ammonia or nitrite left over, then you are ready for fish. You still have to deal with the high nitrates though. I am not sure how you are going to do that. A 50% water change with distilled water? PWC's with 1/4 tap, and 3/4 distilled thereafter? Some other source of nitrate free water? I would do a PWC, no need to gravel vac, since fish have not been eliminating in the water yet. I keep my nitrates less than 10, but that seems to be quite a challenge for you. Others would keep them around 25-40, still below what you start out with in your tap. BTW, how do other fishkeepers in your area deal with the high nitrate tap water? Might want to ask you LFS.

 

[elliott_001]

Although i used pure ammonia, i first used brine shrimp, of which there are still bits left over, so i will have to get them out.
My brother keeps fish (same house, same tap!) his nitrates 50ppm,in his tank, his fish are really healthy, i just dont know why mine are so high. I'm hoping my plants will reduce the nitrates when they get going.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

You can suck some of the shrimp out with the gravel vac, yes. That could be why the nitrates are going up too. With the shrimp and adding ammonia, and still drops to 0, you are definitely cycled. Go ahead and do a light gravel vac in places where there's some shrimp remains. But the most important part is getting nitrates down with a large PWC. Since I just got a Python here, I've been doing 50-75% weekly, and the fish are loving it. I tested my tap, and no nitrates showing at all, and my tank stays below 10ppm for most of the week, then get's between 10-20ppm when PWC time comes.

So you can do as large a PWC as you want now. If you can get it down close to 50 then like in your brothers tank, you should be fine. You might also ask the lfs what they do about the high nitrates in the tap, as was stated in the previous post. I'm curious to see what they say.

 

[elliott_001]

Yes, i will do that. I will just get out the bits of shrimp. Why is regular gravel vac not such a good idea, my brother wondered, is it because it removes bacteria from the substrate?

Im a bit puzzled with the nitrate situation, ive been told to test my tap water after leaving to stand for 24h, i just tested some water i left in my room last night and the nitrate reading is the same as straight from the tap, if not higher! (50ppm - 75ppm)

I have to say, i dont like the nitrate test kit i have, i dont know what others are like but the top two colour readings on my kit are 75mg/l and 100mg/l and they are practically the same colour red!

I will let you know what my lfs say about the high nitrates. I think i will also take a water sample and get them to test the nitrates, just incase.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

During a fishless cycle, you do not want to disturb the gravel. Once you have added fish, and you start to get poo, then yes, you always do gravel vacs. Right now you are wanting the bacteria to multiply, and it's best if it's undisturbed. But with the shrimp, yes, do a light gravel vac.

 

[TomK2]

Yeah, high range nitrates are a bummer. Guess the designers of the test kit figured you would rarely end up with levels that you start out with! You only let the tap water stand overnight for a pH test, as C02 equilibration might change the pH a little bit.

Beware the LFS that uses test strips for customers, test strips are notoriously inaccurate.

 

[elliott_001]

Dunno why i was told to do that then, it would also lower the chlorine level, but nvm.

Today i tested the water and it was perfect! (apart from the nitrates) So i went to the lfs and spoke to them. I decided to add a bit more sand before i added fish, so took out about half of the water (and got rid of the shrimp bits), added more sand and then also planted some more plants. After that i re-filled the tank and treated the water for metal ions, chloramines etc. Then i went back to the lfs and purchased my first fish!

I decided on 3 botia striata
and 2 otocinclus affinis!

I did want to get 4 oto's and the lfs did have that many on my first visit, but when i returned they only had 2. I will add 2more later.
Anyway, they are all doing great so far, 2 of the loach are going mad and swimming all over the place and one is carmly exploring the caves and going in and out the plants and driftwood.

Both the oto's have got stuck into all the brown algae on the rocks and the green algae on the glass.

I think i will add more loach at a later date, maybe a different type though, haven't decided yet - both most loaches will get along fine with each other wont they?

 

[TomK2]

Great news! good luck with the new tank.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Yes, all loaches get along well. If you want to see some action, get skunk loaches, they are the most aggressive of the loaches. They like chasing alot, but they don't hurt anyone. Also, dojo loaches are cool too.