Questions about cycling and water quality

[larochem595]

I have finally cycled my first tank. (Note that I ended up doing a fish-in cycle, after being ill advised by a family member that I could put my fish in right away.) After doing what seems like a million partial water changes to keep the ammonia down, I've finally had some success.

I have a few more questions about the process that I am wondering.

1. It seems like my nitrites never really got elevated. The ammonia has stabilized in my tank. The nitrate levels are going up. Is the nitrite cycle so short that I may have completely missed it? Nitrites have never registered on either my test strips or using my API nitrite test, yet the nitrates seem to be going up. Weird.
2. I have well water at home. There is a small amount of nitrates in my tap water. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a way to remedy it or make it better? I fear I may end up having to do water changes frequently because of this.
3. Does vacuuming the tank hinder the cycle in any way? I have read mixed information on this...

Thanks for any help you might be able to offer!!!
Michelle

 

[BBradbury]

Your Tank

Hello Michelle...

Cycling a tank with fish is a very efficient method. Provided, you choose a hardy fish. This method takes roughly a month. You should be testing the tank water daily for traces of ammonia or nitrite. When you have several daily tests with no trace of these forms of nitrogen, the tank is cycled.

After the cycle is complete, you change half the tank water weekly and replace it with treated tap water. This will maintain safe water conditions for the fish.

Well water is treated the same as public water. You should use a water treatment like Seachem's "Safe" according to the instructions.

You can keep nitrates to a minimum by using floating plants like Hornwort or using a nitrogen reducing filter media like the products from Acurel.

I don't vacuum the bottom. It's home to some of the beneficial bacteria that use the dissolved fish waste for food. The organic material that collects on the bottom dissolves and nourishes the plants. The rest is removed through the weekly water change.

B

 

[dalto]

1. It seems like my nitrites never really got elevated. The ammonia has stabilized in my tank. The nitrate levels are going up. Is the nitrite cycle so short that I may have completely missed it? Nitrites have never registered on either my test strips or using my API nitrite test, yet the nitrates seem to be going up. Weird.

This is not that uncommon, especially if you don't use existing bacteria to kick-start the cycle. Basically what happens is that your bacteria colonies grow out in parallel and the spikes are either too small to show up in your kit or they happen so quickly you miss them. As long as ammonia is staying at 0 and nitrates are slowly growing you should be fine.

2. I have well water at home. There is a small amount of nitrates in my tap water. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a way to remedy it or make it better? I fear I may end up having to do water changes frequently because of this.

This is not super common but many other people report this. There is not really an easy way to deal with this other than filtering the nitrates out. How much are we talking about? Less than 5ppm probably isn't worth worrying about.

3. Does vacuuming the tank hinder the cycle in any way? I have read mixed information on this...

Not unless the gravel is part of your filtration. For example using an undergravel filter which is not very common anymore. Even then, it is pretty manageable.

 

[larochem595]

Well water is treated the same as public water. You should use a water treatment like Seachem's "Safe" according to the instructions.

I've been using Seachem Prime.

You can keep nitrates to a minimum by using floating plants like Hornwort or using a nitrogen reducing filter media like the products from Acurel.

This is definitely helpful. I've never had a planted aquarium before. Do you know of any good websites on how to go about planting your aquarium? I've read somewhere that plants help to use up some nitrates so it might be a good idea.

Thanks for your response!
Michelle

 

[larochem595]

This is not that uncommon, especially if you don't use existing bacteria to kick-start the cycle. Basically what happens is that your bacteria colonies grow out in parallel and the spikes are either too small to show up in your kit or they happen so quickly you miss them. As long as ammonia is staying at 0 and nitrates are slowly growing you should be fine.

Good to hear. It makes sense.

This is not super common but many other people report this. There is not really an easy way to deal with this other than filtering the nitrates out. How much are we talking about? Less than 5ppm probably isn't worth worrying about.

Its right around 5 ppm. Apparently Accurel makes a nitrate reducing filter pad. Maybe I will try filtering out my tap water prior to putting it into my tank using this.

Thanks for your responses, very helpful!!
Michelle

 

[dalto]

Well water is treated the same as public water. You should use a water treatment like Seachem's "Safe" according to the instructions.

Well water should not have chlorine in it. Why treat it with dechlorinator?

Its right around 5 ppm.

At 5ppm it is not worth the hassle of trying to pretreat it. Look at this way. If you are 20ppm of nitrate and did a water change with pure water it would drop to 10ppm after the change. With your water it will drop to 12.5ppm. In the long run, it won't make much difference. If you had 20ppm of nitrate in your tap that would be a different story.

 

[trennamw]

Well water doesn't have chlorine but it often has metals. I don't know much about much but the water treatment I use says "detoxifies heavy metals".

If you have a well you likely have a septic tank. Areas with septic systems often have nitrates in the ground water for the same reason aquariums have nitrates. Farming areas too.

In another thread I was reading claims that using seachem purigen instead of charcoal reduces nitrates. I don't know if that's a solution to consider.

But 5ppm is commonly accepted as safe. I believe 20ppm is where people start to worry about fish.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[Coyne]

In another thread I was reading claims that using seachem purigen instead of charcoal reduces nitrates. I don't know if that's a solution to consider.
.

It doesn't so much absorb nitrates, but rather it absorbs organic material that would otherwise get converted to ammonia, then nitrite and then finally nitrate. So the end result is that it reduces the amount of nitrate that gets produced, not that it removes existing nitrate.

The more you know.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[dalto]

In another thread I was reading claims that using seachem purigen instead of charcoal reduces nitrates. I don't know if that's a solution to consider.

My understanding of what Purigen does is that it removes organics that would eventually become converted to Nitrates. I don't think it would actually take existing nitrates away.

But 5ppm is commonly accepted as safe. I believe 20ppm is where people start to worry about fish.

Yes, the exact amount of nitrates that are acceptable for fish is hotly debated but I think most people would agree that anything at or below 20ppm is going to be fine. Personally, I try to keep mine below 20ppm but some people allow it to get higher.

 

[larochem595]

Well water should not have chlorine in it. Why treat it with dechlorinator?

I use Seachem prime. Many people in our area have metals in their water, mostly iron. The Prime detoxifies heavy metals to make the water safer.

On a side note about well water,I was thankful to discover that our water was hard but not as hard as I would've thought. I just had to choose some fish that can tolerate hard water (live bearers.)

The nitrate level is below 20 ppm, so I should be okay. I just want to do right by my fishes =) They look happy, have good appetites and are quite active--I must be doing something right

Thanks again,
Michelle

 

[trennamw]

I keep reading that most captive bred fish can tolerate harder water as long as it is consistent, so there is that.

Good to know about the specifics of purigen!

Maybe you're destined for a very heavily planted tank!


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[larochem595]

Things are not good--the nitrates are apparently way higher than I thought... Between 20-40 ppm in both my tap water and my tank water! My mom fears either the cesspool needs pumping or my dad has been over-fertilizing the grass. (On the plus side, I'm glad I caught this because we don't want to be drinking this!)

I did a partial water change and slowly added a small amount of R/O water to try and dilute the nitrates in my tank. I added Seachem Prime directly to my tank. Tomorrow I plan to visit a family member's house and get some nitrate-free water. I want to dilute the nitrates down by doing water changes over the next few days, without shocking my poor fish. What rate should I be changing out the water to avoid shocking my fish?

Am I doing things right?
Any advice would be appreciated!
Thanks!!!
Michelle

Cats are soooo much easier...

 

[larochem595]

Other update:
I added some java ferns in my tank, they look great! I also added a couple of bulbs two days ago and they're already beginning to sprout!
Thanks for the planted tank idea, I didn't think I had enough light but it looks like its going to work! Thanks!

 

[TomK2]

Farm fertilizer run off can cause nitrate in well water. I have heard of people noticing increases after heavy rains. There is no easy fix. Bottled water or reverse osmosis? Your septic system should not have anything to do with it. If it did, think about it... Ewwwww.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[larochem595]

Farm fertilizer run off can cause nitrate in well water. I have heard of people noticing increases after heavy rains. There is no easy fix. Bottled water or reverse osmosis? Your septic system should not have anything to do with it. If it did, think about it... Ewwwww.

There's been no farms on or near our property for about 120 years so I doubt its that. We have had some issues with the septic system however. Thankfully, we filter all our drinking water but still... Yes, ewww.... I've definitely thought about it...

 

[TomK2]

There's been no farms on or near our property for about 120 years so I doubt its that. We have had some issues with the septic system however. Thankfully, we filter all our drinking water but still... Yes, ewww.... I've definitely thought about it...

Then you and your neighbors are definitely fertilizing those lawns!

Aquifiers are usually large underground things, deep...deep underground things , at least I hope they are A LOT deeper than septic systems! I can not comment on how long things last or how far they travel. I do know that careless industry practices contaminated well water in my area that is still present 50 to 60 years later.

 

[larochem595]

Tom,

That's a good point--you would think that the depth of the aquifier would provide enough distance from the septic system...

However, at the time the house was built, there were not as many strict laws about the placement of septic systems. We consulted some family members in construction and one of them believes that the distance from well to septic tank is not within building code. Ewww!

Thanks for the reply,
Michelle

 

[trennamw]

Farm fertilizer run off can cause nitrate in well water. I have heard of people noticing increases after heavy rains. There is no easy fix. Bottled water or reverse osmosis? Your septic system should not have anything to do with it. If it did, think about it... Ewwwww.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

Septic systems have a lot to do with nitrates in ground water. As with aquariums, their job is to break everything down, but you still have nitrates at the end. Small towns all over the place hit critical points with their nitrates due to lack of sewer.

The stuff that goes into a septic tank doesn't turn into rainbows and butterflies ... But if the system works properly it isn't "Ewww" either.

There are a few septic tanks on the market today (my dad installs these, he was the first in Oregon to do so, due to a drive to clean up water supplies) ... They are a more complete waste treatment system and put out water clean enough for the lawn.

But the vast majority ... The end game is nitrate laden water.

Distance to the tank doesn't change all that much. I lived in a town with septic tanks but no wells. There was one water supply that pumped groundwater to everyone. The water was heavy with nitrates because everyone's septic systems deposit nitrate full water into the ground water supply.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[trennamw]

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1816#.VGJZBe29LCQ


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[TomK2]

Since farm fertilizers and lawn fertilizers can follow the rainwater down into the aquifier, it makes perfect sense that nitrates from septic systems can do the same. You have to get your mind around not just one septic system, but hundreds or thousands of them in a town all doing the same thing.

But at least it is just the nitrates escaping, and not the other solids and liquids that septic systems are meant to turn into nitrates. Again, a big EWWWWW.

I grew up in a home with well water and a septic system in a suburban area. Even had a fish tank. One day municipal water did arrive, but we still used the well water for watering the lawn, cleaning cars and such. I can still remember the sound the little pump made in the basement. Of course, that was in the days long before aquarium keepers widely understood the nitrogen cycle. Heck, we used to clean the tanks and save the water becuase it had magical properties that kept fish alive that wasn't there when we first added a whole tankful of fish (now you know about how old I am).