So...um...bacteria? Do I have to send invitations?

[TomK2]

Well, there are other things that effect the activity of nitrifying bacteria too. I quickly scanned the previous pages, I did not see any mention of the pH. Nitrifying bacteria are at their most efficient in slightly alkaline pH's, 7.4 to 7.8. However, do not adjust your pH with chemicals, the pH swings are bad. Nitrifying bacteria start to be harmed by pH below 6.5, and stop their activity at pH of 6.0. They prefer warm temps, just like your FW set up, 77 to 82 degrees is fine. If you thought you could save on the electricity by keeping the tank cool during the fishless cycle, it could slow it down a little, but not prevent it. The bacteria need micronutrients commonly found in tap water, like phosphorous. If you filled your tank with reverse osmosis or distilled water to start, it could be lacking in some elements.

So, if you didn't use RO or distilled water, what's the pH and temp? if these are OK, then the only other thing I can think of is chlorine/chloramine.

 

[bosk1]

So very true. But something still puzzles me, have you experienced cloudy water during the past couple of weeks? Stands to reason that if you had any bacterial die off, it would have manifested itself visibly.

I got cloudy water after adding my driftwood. It has been there since (see below for approx timing). I assumed it was just tannins from the driftwood.

Yes. It was within days of adding a piece of driftwood (probably about 4 or so days into my tank setup). I assumed it was just tannins from the driftwood. It has stayed about the same since then (ie. slightly cloudy).

Well, there are other things that effect the activity of nitrifying bacteria too. I quickly scanned the previous pages, I did not see any mention of the pH. Nitrifying bacteria are at their most efficient in slightly alkaline pH's, 7.4 to 7.8. However, do not adjust your pH with chemicals, the pH swings are bad. Nitrifying bacteria start to be harmed by pH below 6.5, and stop their activity at pH of 6.0. They prefer warm temps, just like your FW set up, 77 to 82 degrees is fine. If you thought you could save on the electricity by keeping the tank cool during the fishless cycle, it could slow it down a little, but not prevent it. The bacteria need micronutrients commonly found in tap water, like phosphorous. If you filled your tank with reverse osmosis or distilled water to start, it could be lacking in some elements.

So, if you didn't use RO or distilled water, what's the pH and temp? if these are OK, then the only other thing I can think of is chlorine/chloramine.

Good points, Tom. Let me clarify on a few points so all the information is here in one place.

*consults handy, dandy tank log*

11/2/05--filled tank with pure tap water, added dechlorinator, and began running tank. Did not test any levels. I just wanted to get it up and running.

11/5/05--checked ph: 7.8. This kind of freaked me out, so I posted here asking if that were too high, or if it were best to just not put any additives in the tank to avoid drastic ph swings. Advice here was consistent with what I had researched on my own: it is a bit on the high side, but is better than having chemicals in my water, and better than risking drastic swings that could occur if I tamper.

11/7/05--added a nice but small piece of driftwood purchased at lfs after soaking in boiling water a couple of hours because I read that it helps naturally buffer the water and control ph...and it looked cool. Water became slightly cloudy after a day or two (I didn't record this in my log, so I'm guessing). Has stayed about the same since.
I also added pure ammonia. Ammonia level: around 4.0.

11/11/05--ammonia holding steady and no nitrites. I was going out of town for a few days, so I added some ammonia to keep the level up in case the bacteria started nitrifying the ammonia while I was away. Brought my level up to 5.0.

Since then, my ammonia has held at 5, nitrites at 0.

11/20/05--added filter media from a long established tank. Also topped off water due to loss from evaporation (less than 5%; straight from tap). Did not dechlorinate new water.

Levels have still held steady last few days. Added dechlorinator before leaving the house this morning.

Oh, and as far as temp., it has been about 80 for most of the time the tank has been up. I've got it holding at a steady 79 now.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Another question. Have you brought some water to the lfs to test to see if the results there are the same?

 

[bosk1]

No. I thought about doing that, but ultimately decided not to bother just yet. Main reason is because, even if my nitrite tests are not working properly, I should see some change in ammonia if the tank were truly cycling. It has held steady. (I tested the ammonia a few times as a gradually added the ammonia initially, so I know it is showing different colors for different levels). But I may bring some water in over the weekend if nothing changes, just to see if they are showing something different.

 

[TomK2]

Well, I have heard of fishless cycles taking 6 weeks before. Most get it done quicker. Personally, I do not beleive that a 5% water addition that was not dechlorinated would kill a cycle. My reasoning is that the chlorine is rapidly diluted, then rapidly aerated out of the tank in less than 24 hours. Not that I recommend skipping the dechlor, but I doubt it is the main problem. This assumes that you have some surface agitation to allow oxygen in, and chlorine out. If you have chloramine (ie: your ammonia test turns color on tap water), it would not aerate out and dechlor is a must, but a 5% addition is essentially diluting the chloramines bya factor of 20. So a mean concentration of 3ppm (the high side for municipal water) would be diluted down to 0.15ppm, which I beleive is an ineffective bacteriacidal level.

Time will tell. eventually, you will get a biologic filter established, and you should be grateful that you don't have fish in there, otherwise you would have had weeks and weeks of water changes!

 

[bosk1]

...you should be grateful that you don't have fish in there, otherwise you would have had weeks and weeks of water changes!

Indeed! (although I know enough to not add fish with an ammonia reading of 5.0)

Time will tell. eventually, you will get a biologic filter established...

Yes, I can hardly wait. It's just a little baffling that I am not getting any bio activity after adding used filter media.

 

[bosk1]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Everyone in my household ate well...including my new bacteria!!! Yes, we've got nitrites (finally). Ammonia dropped from 5 to 4. Nitrites .25 (not much, but it's something). I also checked nitrates for the first time, and I'm at 5. So, we're finally on the way... (which also means this thread can die soon, other than to serve as education for the next person who becomes impatient with their fishless cycle)

 

[TomK2]

Great news! Have you checked your tap water for nitrates? Since virtually every ppm of ammonia becomes one ppm of nitrite, then one ppm of nitrate, losing one ppm of ammonia and gaining 5 ppm of nitrate does not add up. Then again, I seem top remember you saying you had 0 nitrates before, so that what you have seen is probably not mysterious or bad math, but the error margins that happen when using color charts (not extremely quantitative) with vastly different scales.

Glad to hear that you are seeing some results. Don't throw out all your hard earned patience now, the nitrite phase can last a few weeks too. So that you don't have a huge amount of nitrite in a few days, I would think you should let the amonia levels decrease to 1 or 2 ppm, then add enough daily to keep it in that range while the nitrite bacteria catch up. You will probably find that you need half or less of the original dose, and sometime soon each day the ammonia will go to zero despite your daily dose.

When ammonia and nitrite go to zero in 24 hours, you are done!

 

[bosk1]

Thanks, Tom. It's easier to be patient now that I know the cycle is at least taking place. I will test some straight tap water to check on nitrates. I have not tested for them before now, so I do not know if my existing numbers are the result of preexsting nitrates, or simply error margins in my test kits as you mention.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Good to hear. Now the last part of the cycle, which mine is still in, waiting for the nitrites to drop like the ammonia does. I put 2ppm ammonia in and the next day down to 0, but nitrites are staying between 2 and 5ppm. Trying hard to be patient here. And in the end, will pay off. Good to hear you are cycling and not stalled.

 

[greenmaji]

I was off by 2 days.. man.. I was close though..
it was just a guesstamate from what the worst case senerio's Ive seen for NH3 to break..
good to hear your finaly rolling along with the cycle..