UV Sterilizer Questions

[Gauge]

I am really new to all this, but after only a couple months, I'm already hooked. I have been having a problem with my fish dying left and right in my tank. All the amonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, etc. levels were perfect. I was told that perhaps since one of my fish was a cowfish (not the first one to die, though), that it could be a chemical problem caused by him being stressed and dying. Poison or some such. Since then I have changed 200% of the tank's volume over the last two weeks or so. I assume that whatever it was, it's gone. I had a bag of carbon in there for a while, too. Anyway, stuff kept dying. Now, I'm being told it could be a biological problem (ich, or some other parasite). I was told to get a UV sterilizer. I have a 9 watt sterilizer, 100 gph pump, and 42 gallon tank. Could anyone make any recommendations on how long I should wait before adding new fish to the tank? (i.e. how long it would take a sterilizer under those conditions to remove any biological problem from the tank).

Also, I was planning on adding filter feeders to the mix at some point (yellow sea cucumber, xenias, and maybe a couple other things). Is there any way to keep them fed with a UV sterilizer running?

And if any of this sounds stupid, please fill me in. I'm learning this stuff for the first time, and anything that would prevent me from having to flush another fish would be appreciated.

 

[Guest]

The UV light is not going to cause a problem with the filter feeders not having anything to eat. It will be beneficial to the tank by killing off single celled organisms including most parasitic forms. The fact that all of your fish died, puzzles me though. How did they all die? slowly? or Fast?. You say that all of the levels were perfect but do not give the parameters? Were any of them in the little to no range of being present, or 0. If the water is testing 0 for ammonia and 0 for nitrites, you should be able to introduce fish in there. However, do it slow. 1 fish per week or so... This way, you can monitor to see if everything is going to be ok, if the fish shows signs of undue stress, there may still be a problem... BTW, what kind of water are you using to do water changes? RO? Tap? etc...

Be aware that sea cucumbers will give off toxins if they are stressed beyond a point, and can make your tank toxic.

 

[Gauge]

Thanks for the advice on the sea cucumbers. I've already been warned away from them, but I can't help myself. The yellow sea cucumbers are awesome.

I don't remember what normal is for all the levels, but amonia and nitrites were at 0. Nitrates were like 10 or so (I was told 40 is borderline bad). PH was 8.3, Salinity 1.022. Other than that, I'm not sure, but they said they were all doing good.

I use RO water for my changes. I buy RO water from a store down the street that is called "Water 4 U" hehe. Anyway, I mix the water myself in a 10-gallon tank with a mixing pump and usually let it cure for 1-2 days before putting it in the tank. The PH and DkH are usually right in line when I'm done mixing it, so I don't add any buffer.

So, you're saying that UV sterilizers won't kill anything bigger than single-celled organisms for the most part? And most parasites are single-celled? And food for filter feeders is larger than that, and thus won't be removed by the sterilizer? And thus, I don't have to change anything or add any plankton to the tank if I decide to add filter feeders?

 

[Guest]

So, you're saying that UV sterilizers won't kill anything bigger than single-celled organisms for the most part? And most parasites are single-celled? And food for filter feeders is larger than that, and thus won't be removed by the sterilizer? And thus, I don't have to change anything or add any plankton to the tank if I decide to add filter feeders?

I don't. I have feather dusters and xenia and all seem to be multiplying rather nicely...I do not have any other filters either except for the LR and LS...and UV running 24x7...

 

[Gauge]

How big is your tank?

How old?

How many feather dusters, xenia, etc?

I'm only curious.

 

[BillyZ]

Be aware that sea cucumbers will give off toxins if they are stressed beyond a point, and can make your tank toxic.

I thought this was sea apples? Sea cuccumbers have the same problem?

 

[Guest]

How big is your tank? 55 Gallon

How old? Going on 1 year

How many feather dusters, xenia, etc? 25 FD's and 5 patches of Xenia

BillyZ,

I thought this was sea apples? Sea cuccumbers have the same problem?

The Sea Cucumber shares the five-part symmetrical body plan. They have an unusual method of respiration: they take in water through their anus to breathe. When disturbed or frightened, some sea cucumbers pour out a mass of sticky white threads to confuse or trap their enemies. Others are capable of releasing toxins which in aquaria have been known to kill all the animals and including the sea cucumbers themselves.

As derived from:

http://www.reefed.edu.au/explorer/animals/marine_invertebrates/echinoderms/sea_cucumbers.html

 

[steve-s]

The Sea Cucumber shares the five-part symmetrical body plan. They have an unusual method of respiration: they take in water through their anus to breathe. When disturbed or frightened, some sea cucumbers pour out a mass of sticky white threads to confuse or trap their enemies. Others are capable of releasing toxins which in aquaria have been known to kill all the animals and including the sea cucumbers themselves.


As derived from:

http://www.reefed.edu.au/explorer/animals/marine_invertebrates/echinoderms/sea_cucumbers.html

There is one other part that many miss. Cukes and sea apples alike can easily spawn in the home aquarium. While the males "contribution" is not deadly, it will cause a sharp drop in water quality. Carbon and a few water changes usually clear that up. The female on the other hand will devestate you fish population in a matter of hours after hitting the filtration sytem as well as other motorized parts. The eggs are highly toxic when ruptured.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Catch 22]

UV sterilizers

Hello, I am TOTALLY new to this whole discussion-website stuff but have some questions that I can't seem to get local answers on, at least 2 that are the same... So I'll just try jumping in here. I've got a 92 gal. corner salt fish tank that has been up for about a year now, (I upgraded from a 55 salt w/undergravel filter, 2 pwr. heads & Fluval 302 for the last 16 or so years w/no complaints.) Well I got the recommended wet/dry & the tank has the built in overflow & I CAN'T STAND IT! The noise (despite modifications to the standpipe), the evaporation & having to replace about a gallon of water every few days.. & so on. I decided to go back to a reliable canister & ordered a new Eheim Pro II 2628 & was planning on adding a Turbo Twist U.V. sterilizer after all I've read about the different brands but have a few "issues" about both. First, since I have the built-in overflow, by pvc-cementing or capping-off my overflow holes in the tank & having the incoming filter tube going over the tank & into the overflow, won't that reduce the "pull" coming into the filter.. as far as tank waste & all having to go over the overflow wall & THEN into the filter tube???? And secondly..... I'm hearing all different opinions on what wattage is correct for their purpose on tank sizes/flows (the Turbo Twist 9 watt is supposed to treat up to 125 gal. ..is that not enough really for my 92?).

If anyone could point me to some info. also on this site for how it all actually works/etiquette & all I'd appreciate it. Like I said, I may not be completely new to fish but I don't know a THING about sites like this, just that they're incredibly helpful & have learned a lot in just reading comments on equipment/products.

Hope I did this right...? & THANKS to anyone who can help!!!!!!

 

[Gauge]

I'm not totally sure that I understand your first question. It sounds like you're saying that you're capping off the overflow entirely and putting a canister filter and/or a UV sterilizer in the overflow chamber instead? And it sounds like you're asking if the fact that the water would have to go up and over the edge of the overflow and then back up and over when returning will cause a resistance or head pressure in the filter, thus slowing the flow?

If I'm right about what you're asking in your first question, then the answer depends. If there is no air in the pipes and they are well sealed, then the answer is no. In that case the whole system will be like a siphon and since the water is going from one height ultimately to the same height, then there will be no resistance or head pressure. If there is air in the pipes and it just dribbles out of the output pipe, then yes, you will be pumping uphill, but only the distance from the water level to the height of the output pipe over the water level. I would assume this would be no more than an inch or so. So, basically, don't worry about it. If you would like a diagram, I'd be happy to draw one for ya.

As far as the second question goes, I have two pieces of advice... 1) Get a UV sterilizer that claims to be rated for twice the volume of your tank. UV sterilizers seem to be the worst about overestimating their usefulness... 2) Make sure the pump you use for the sterilizer is at the bottom of the recommended range of gph. For example, my 9-watt recommends 100-400gph. I have a 110 gph pump on it at a few inches of head pressure. Thus, I'm likely only putting about 80 gph through it. This is ideal. If you have too much flow, the microorganisms will only get a nice sun tan.


Oh, and since I get to do it first for a change... WELCOME TO AA.COM!!!

(reefrunner, how do you do that cool smiley with the sign and all?)

 

[TheMadNucleus]

Nice Sun Tan - Love it - very funny gauge - made me chuckle.

Just wanted to add some info here on UV sterilization. UV radiation destroys a cell's ability to use its DNA. regardless of whether or not it is a single cell organism or multi-cellular. However, the fewer the cells the more effected an organism will be by exposure to the same level of UV rays. Here is a quote from About.com re. feeding while using a UV:

Because it can destroy beneficial microscopic organisms that some reef tank inhabitants may depend on as a food source, UV light should not be run during feeding time.

So I just wanted to post caution, particularly if you employ a long dwell time giving a high kill rate for pathogens might also give a high kill rate to multi-cellular food sources.

Over all, IMO, UV's are excellent devices for all forms of aquariums.

Tom

 

[Catch 22]

Hey! Thank you for the quick response. In regards to the overflow issue, I just wasn't sure if I should drop-in the canister intake tube into the overflow compartment or directly into the tank (i.e. completely by-passing the overflow chamber all together). If going directly into the tank, I'd have to seal-off the slots at the top of the overflow so absolutely no water got inside it & not use it at all. Only problem, I'm decreasing my tanks total volume by another couple of gallons with a dry overflow compartment.

In regards to the U.V. sterilizer, thanks for the tip. Could I run it from one of my canister tubes or does it HAVE to have a separate pump??? I think I've got a Magnum..?.. not sure of it's size, that was on the wet/dry. One last thing, I'm not sure I understand what everyone means by "...inches of head pressure" concerning the pump????

Thanks again!!

 

[TheMadNucleus]

Hi *22*

You can run a UV off your canister but beware of the recommended flow rate as I think Guage had mentioned earlier. This should be on the low side of the MFG's ratings in GPH.

Inches of head pressure, hmmm, never heard that before - usually its feet of head pressure. But Inches works as well just wanted you to becareful of units of measurement. Anyway this is a method of relating backpressure on a pump, either due to the work the pump has to do to lift the water or due to something resisting the flow of water like a canister filter.

Pumps are rated in max head pressure - this means that if you use the pump to pump water straight up (i.e. against gravity) it will pump it to that hieght before stopping. For example if a pump has 1000 GPH rating at 0' feet head pressure and 500 GPH at 10' and it's max is at 20 feet then if you pump water up an 18 foot pipe the pump will produce some small amount of water at the upper end of the pipe. If you use a 21 foot pipe the pump will stop running.

HTH

Tom

 

[Catch 22]

Thanks for trying to help, I've gone back & forth trying to decide how I want to filter this system & from what I've read & heard the most it seems to be sump w/live rock/sand & now NO on the sterilizer.... I'm still waiting to see if someone will describe to me how I should convert my wet/dry. Maybe you can help??.. Do I just remove the balls & replace with the rock? Won't it "die" if not completely submerged in water? I've had salt tanks a loooong time but never used this type of filtration so I'm a rookie regarding the details of the set up. I also still don't know if I can/should remove my 20 year old crushed coral & replace with live sand & how to go about doing it. I've read about putting the CC in nylons & lay it ontop the sand to "seed" but still not sure.

Please help!