HELP!!! Sudden Ammonia Spike In Fomerly Stable Tank

[caprig]

Hi all,
I have a puzzling problem.

I have a 36 gallon bow front tank which has been set up for three months and for two months was balanced completely. Here are the specs.

small school of neons
five cherry barbs
two bristlenose plecos
two boesemani rainbows (emergency transfer to save their lives)

Gravel substrate (four inches)
1/3 live plants
2/3 silk plants
2 air stones

70 gallon aquaclear filter with sponge and filled to capacity with seachem matrix and bio max filter stones

Seachem Prime used as conditioner
Water PH holds around mid to upper 7s
Seachem Stability used in water changes and when fish were new
Aqueon Pro heater- water kept in mid -upper 70s

Food variety of Omega one color flakes, brine shrimp, bloodworms (frozen food only once a week or twice at most) Omega one algae wafers four times a week.

I am not overfeeding.

I do 15% water change weekly and do not scrub my tank or plants excessively.

There is a growth of hair algae on the plants but I keep it trimmed if it gets overbearing. It is about 5% of the plants that are covered with it.

The tank was completely balanced and readings of 0 on all counts for two months, but suddenly the last two weeks the ammonia readings spiked through the roof. I would get it so that it went down and held at .5ppm to 1ppm but then it would spike to 4ppm.

I was using Seachem Prime to try to keep it down, but that was not working, realizing it could be false readings.

If I do a partial water change of 10%, then the next day the ammonia reading goes up off the charts! LITERALLY off the charts- up at 8ppm or higher

I am going nuts trying to figure out what is going on. Doing water changes daily of 10-30% (mostly 10 so I don't get it way off balance), seem not to make it get better.

There is a slight reading of nitrites- barely more than 0, so i know that there is activity in the tank.

I tried rinsing the filter a little in tank water, - trying not to disturb anything, but that only made it worse. I put in more Seachem Matrix to try to give it more to work with, but again, this is alarming.

The fish themselves seem fine and no deaths in the two weeks this has been happening, and that in itself is significant since the neons are so sensitive.

My plan is to do water changes daily but I don't want to go over the 30% - I don't want to keep this getting worse instead of better.

I am putting a cap full of Seachem Prime in a day instead of three trying to wean the tank off of it so I don't get dangerous up and down of the levels, but this is really scary.

I just lost my rainbow school a few months ago in another tank from a weird disease brought in by a new fish. I don't want to lose my other tank because of a weird spiking.

Any insights are appreciated.

I gave as much info as I could I hope it does not overwhelm you all.

 

[Joegourami]

For the moment you should put ammochips or zeolite in the filter, but make sure your tank water does not have any salt dissolved (NaCl). As for the ammonia, something went wrong with your filter, the bacteria died and then came back, but they need to do cycle again. Keep using prime to detoxify ammonia into ammonium, which is much less toxic. 20% daily water changes until you get the zeolite. Alternatively put all the fish in another safe tank and wait until you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 5-30 nitrates.

 

[caprig]

For the moment you should put ammochips or zeolite in the filter, but make sure your tank water does not have any salt dissolved (NaCl). As for the ammonia, something went wrong with your filter, the bacteria died and then came back, but they need to do cycle again. Keep using prime to detoxify ammonia into ammonium, which is much less toxic. 20% daily water changes until you get the zeolite. Alternatively put all the fish in another safe tank and wait until you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 5-30 nitrates.

Does Purigen do the same kind of thing as Zeolite? I have considered putting it in as an emergency measure- although that is not what I would normally do in a cycling tank.

Unfortunately I have no other place to put the fish while I deal with the tank, so I am going to have to push forward. This is not what I expected from this tank at all. It was so balanced and seemed to be so stable! Nothing big changed either.

Thanks for the input though- I really appreciate it.

 

[New2me]

It sounds like it might also be worth testing your tap water for amo?? Hope you some answers soon!

 

[caprig]

It sounds like it might also be worth testing your tap water for amo?? Hope you some answers soon!

Not from the tap - all is fine, and I have five other tanks and all is fine in them too.

Thanks for the reply- any ideas are helpful at this point.

 

[Joegourami]

Does Purigen do the same kind of thing as Zeolite? I have considered putting it in as an emergency measure- although that is not what I would normally do in a cycling tank.

Unfortunately I have no other place to put the fish while I deal with the tank, so I am going to have to push forward. This is not what I expected from this tank at all. It was so balanced and seemed to be so stable! Nothing big changed either.

Thanks for the input though- I really appreciate it.

Purigen could work but personally I prefer the zeolite, works very efficiently. Put the zeolite in the filter instead of the biomedia. That biomedia must be cycled again or seeded with media that has a stablished colony of bacteria.

 

[librarygirl]

Did this happen prior to adding the rainbows? It could be from adding the new fish. Have you checked the filter? If food/waste builds up in the filter it could cause some spikes----maybe give the media a rinse in some old tank water when you do a water change. Also count your fish, particularly the small fish, are any missing? If something died in the tank it could be causing a spike. I'm not sure how water changes would make the situation worse if there's no ammonia or nitrite in your tap water; larger water changes are needed to get the ammonia down. If levels are at 4+ and you do a 15% water change it isn't going to affect the levels much. I'd aim for a couple of 50% water changes a few hours apart for a start. Do you vacuum the substrate regularly? Uneaten food and waste can buildup (particularly with gravel) that could be contributing to the spikes as well.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Have you been overfeeding? Often the answer to a seemingly complex question is a simple answer. If yiu have been overfeeding, the food decays and some rise in ammonia will occur. How often do you VAC your tank? decaying food, plant and fish waste cah cause ammonia spikes as well. Just food for thought. Additionally, how old is your carbon? if it is over 1 month old, it has done its job. Past this time, carbon can start to channel or start releasing toxins back into the water column. Count your fish....is one missing?

 

[caprig]

Did this happen prior to adding the rainbows? It could be from adding the new fish. Have you checked the filter? If food/waste builds up in the filter it could cause some spikes----maybe give the media a rinse in some old tank water when you do a water change. Also count your fish, particularly the small fish, are any missing? If something died in the tank it could be causing a spike. I'm not sure how water changes would make the situation worse if there's no ammonia or nitrite in your tap water; larger water changes are needed to get the ammonia down. If levels are at 4+ and you do a 15% water change it isn't going to affect the levels much. I'd aim for a couple of 50% water changes a few hours apart for a start. Do you vacuum the substrate regularly? Uneaten food and waste can buildup (particularly with gravel) that could be contributing to the spikes as well.

Great line of questions!

Here is the deal:

I did not see a spike for a week after adding the rainbows, but suddenly it did spike, that could be the reason.

I did a few 50% water changes at the beginning of this and the next day it seemed to make it go a lot higher, so I decided to do some daily smaller ones. That is what didn't make sense to me. I have zero levels of everything in my tap water, which is what was so odd to me.

I took all of the plants out and checked for dead fish or matter, and there was nothing. All of my fish were alive.

I vacuum the substrate once or twice a week, but the last two weeks of this, I have been doing it far more- being careful not to suck up the deep bacteria, etc so to upset the balance worse.

I also removed all of the filter material and gently rinsed it in tank water, being sure to remove any sludge etc. There was not much in there to speak of, but I did clean out the tubing from some roots that got lost in there.

I have decided to get another HoB filter yesterday in hopes that perhaps the extra filter surface area would provide a better place for more bacteria to flourish. I am hoping that will help eventually too.

I am guessing that the Prime is causing a false positive with my API testing set which is why it seems higher when I am done with a water change. I found a few people online who had similar problems and it was said that the levels went HIGHER right after water changes- or appeared to. I guess you are not supposed to test again for over 24 hours of using Prime with a water change.



I will let you guys know how it all is going though. This is a very puzzling situation and does not make sense to me.

 

[caprig]

Have you been overfeeding? Often the answer to a seemingly complex question is a simple answer. If yiu have been overfeeding, the food decays and some rise in ammonia will occur. How often do you VAC your tank? decaying food, plant and fish waste cah cause ammonia spikes as well. Just food for thought. Additionally, how old is your carbon? if it is over 1 month old, it has done its job. Past this time, carbon can start to channel or start releasing toxins back into the water column. Count your fish....is one missing?

I cut way down on feeding the last two weeks or so- even skipping a day now and then to give them a rest. I cut way down on frozen food too. I only use it once or twice a week, and very little of it.

The odd part is that I feed the fish in the other tanks even a little more and they are all balanced at at zero or close to it on all counts.

I totally understand the simple questions though- at this point all input is valuable!

As for vacuuming, I generally vacuum once a week or every five days, but this period of time I have been cleaning the bottom daily with water changes, being careful not to strip the substrate of the beneficial bacteria.

I decided to get another HoB filter (Aquaclear/Fluval Power Filter) and give the bacteria more space to grow and flourish, perhaps eventually being able to take on the fish load better.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

If all that has been done....how old is your test kit/ Is it strips or chemical reagents?
Don't cut back on the water changes....that is the best thing to do as ammonia is toxic to fish and will bern the gills, causing them to suffocate. Test your TAP water for ammonia and chloramines if you have a trace of ammonia or chlorine...letting the water vent for 24-48 hours is effective. You just have to get it up to the temp in your tank, an additional tank heater should do the trick. Don't starv your fish....keep them on a pretty consistent feeding schedule, otherwise you add stress to an already precarious situation. Your BB need fish waste so back off on the vaccuming. BB is also in your filters and hoses, I tend to leave them alone, but toss my carbon pretty regularly. You may also benefit from increased O2 in your tank. Are you running an airstone? Ammonia dissipates in the presence of O2 and a PH under 7.0 Good luck.....Dwayne

 

[caprig]

If all that has been done....how old is your test kit/ Is it strips or chemical reagents?
Don't cut back on the water changes....that is the best thing to do as ammonia is toxic to fish and will bern the gills, causing them to suffocate. Test your TAP water for ammonia and chloramines if you have a trace of ammonia or chlorine...letting the water vent for 24-48 hours is effective. You just have to get it up to the temp in your tank, an additional tank heater should do the trick. Don't starv your fish....keep them on a pretty consistent feeding schedule, otherwise you add stress to an already precarious situation. Your BB need fish waste so back off on the vaccuming. BB is also in your filters and hoses, I tend to leave them alone, but toss my carbon pretty regularly. You may also benefit from increased O2 in your tank. Are you running an airstone? Ammonia dissipates in the presence of O2 and a PH under 7.0 Good luck.....Dwayne

Thanks for the input! Been offline a few days.

Well, I got the 2nd filter in and did water changes daily. The first reading was .5 which was great but the next day BAM it was up near 4 again. I did another water change- doing 1/4 water changes.

I will continue with it.

I do have plenty of heat and air- I have two air stones going during the day but not at night. The two filters are going too.

I don't have carbon, I only use lots of biofilter (bio max and matrix combo) and then I have sponges. I am trying to avoid using Purigen as I find that the filters tend to depend on it too much and when I remove it, I am back to spikes again.

I will do another water change today. Using Prime helps to keep the ammonia detoxed for up to 48 hours, but I don't want to take chances in having spikes.

My test kit is the API and is supposed to be good for two more years. However, when I test other water in my other tanks, it tests fine.

My tap has no readings on anything- in other words zero.

What puzzles me is this constant spiking. I am going to keep up with water changes, but the readings go way up right after the water change. I am told that is typical of the Prime and they tell you to wait 24 hours to test for that reason.

I have six tanks and have never had any of them go this nuts, esp after being stable for a few months first.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Ammo chips are good to try.Suggest you use charcoal and ammo chips together. Once your tank is stable, you can back off on the carbon. Carbon absorbs the things your basic test kit is not designed for. There is a lot more to aquarium water than PH, Amonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. I have a Discus tank and I can tell you that they can be demanding. I do a 200% water change every month, and I replace my charcoal every 3-4 weeks. I have never had problems with any levels by doing this. Some may say 200% WC is excessive, but when I spend 20 minutes every other day, and remove just 20 gallons, I come up with a 200% WC every month. I dont use ANY chemicals. Just clean water, good mechanical filtration, healthy BB and avoid over feeding. Once per week I pill the sponges out of my wet / dry sump and give them a rinse (10 whole minutes) and leave the fish alone. Use the charcoal....it is your friend. After 3-4 weeks, toss it and replace.

 

[Akrist_1990]

Happened to me what I did and worked I got the ammonia chemical from petco emptied my whole tank completely and started over and added ammonia everyday and tested

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Sounds loke your power may have gone out and come back on. In the meantime your BB died. Just a theory. Did you happen to notice your clocks flashing one day?