High mortality for new fish

[redbourn]

I set up a 35 gallon freshwater tank around 5 weeks ago and added nutrfin aquaplus.

I let it stand for several days with an external filter; undergravel filters and air stones running.

I then slowly added supposedly easy to keep fish, such as live bearers; algae eaters; neons and a pair of angel fish.

Probably two thirds of the fish that I've added have died and most of them within a couple of days although some have lasted longer and one third are alive and seemingly happy.

Some of the fish such as danios, the algae eater and one of two corydoras have been there since the beginning and are thriving and some of the liverbearer's fry have survived and grown.

Nitrite 0 ppm; ammonia 0; pH 7.6

I have a good amount of experience with tropical fish and there are no obvious diseases.

Three days ago I set up a small 5 gallon tank to use as an isolation tank (built in filter) and conditioned it with the nutrifin aquaplus and the water readings are as above.

Yesterday lunchtime I put in 4 neons and 2 ghost glass cats and they all looked fine when I went to bed.

This morning one of the cats didn't look so good and two of the neons were hiding out behind the heater.

This evening both cats were dead and the two neons look like they may or may not make it. Erratic and uneven balance.

If I keep buying fish I shall eventually have a tank full of healthy ones but there's obviously a problem and any help solving it would be much appreciated.

Michael

 

[Mr. Limpet]

It can take weeks for a tank to cycle and be a suitable environment to keep fish alive and healthy. Now that you have fish it could take a couple months there's an article about cycling with fish here I'd urge you to read, but first IMO/E you really need to do a 50% PWC right away.

 

[Rosenweiss]

Yeah... simply letting a tank sit before adding fish will not cycle it. You would have had to add an ammonia source, let the nitrifying bacteria grow to convert it to nitrites and then let the rest of the bacteria grow to turn it to nitrates.

What probably happened was that the fish you bought produced too much ammonia for the bacteria to grow in response, and they died of ammonia or nitrite poisoning.

Right now what I would suggest is buying a liquid API test kit for ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes (if you don't already have one). If your ammonia and nitrites are truly zero, AND your nitrates are showing a good reading (no higher than 20, but should be at least 5) then your tank is now cycled...but you lost quite a few fish in the process, unfortunately

If you put the new fish in your 5 gallon, it's the same thing. The tank wasn't cycled, so they probably died of stress or ammonia poisoning.

Also, if you happen to buy more glass/ghost cats, I'd make sure to get a group of 5-6. =] (this i know from experience, they are a true schooling fish and NEED buddies to be happy).

 

[redbourn]

It can take weeks for a tank to cycle and be a suitable environment to keep fish alive and healthy. Now that you have fish it could take a couple months there's an article about cycling with fish here I'd urge you to read, but first IMO/E you really need to do a 50% PWC right away.

Thanks for the fast reply.

I imagine that PWC means X water change?

I did vacuum and change 1/3 of the water in the bigger tank today.

But why in the 5 gallon one?

The water has only been in there a few days and it's been conditioned.

Many years ago I had several aquariums and bred lots of fish including betas, gouramis, and zebras and never had any of these problems.

I wonder what changed?

I was surprised to read the other day that "live bearers are now much weaker than they used to be", but the poster didn't say why.

I used to change around 1/4 of the water in my tanks every month or so and only lost fish due to old age or aggression.

The only thing I ever did about chlorine was to let the water stand for 24 hours; no conditioners etc.

Michael

P.S. I'll read the article

P.P.S It seems that almost every other kid has allergies today, which neither I nor any of my friends recall having been any kind of common problem either.

 

[Rosenweiss]

Thanks for the fast reply.

I imagine that PWC means X water change?

I did vacuum and change 1/3 of the water in the bigger tank today.

But why in the 5 gallon one?

The water has only been in there a few days and it's been conditioned.

Many years ago I had several aquariums and bred lots of fish including betas, gouramis, and zebras and never had any of these problems.

I wonder what changed?

I was surprised to read the other day that "live bearers are now much weaker than they used to be", but the poster didn't say why.

I used to change around 1/4 of the water in my tanks every month or so and only lost fish due to old age or aggression.

The only thing I ever did about chlorine was to let the water stand for 24 hours; no conditioners etc.

Michael

P.S. I'll read the article

P.P.S It seems that almost every other kid has allergies today, which neither I nor any of my friends recall having been any kind of common problem either.

Yes, a PWC means a partial water change. In the 5 gallon one, it's because it hasn't been cycled. See, a cycled tank is one that has lots of bacteria growth in it, so that it can, in very little time, take all the ammonia that the fish and the fish food create, and turn it into nitrates (which are harmless in quantities under 20, unlike ammonia). Now, it's true that 1 day probably wasn't enough to kill your fish of ammonia poisoning, so it's possible that you just bought some bad livestock.

It's also true that some fish are weaker nowadays. That's because they've been inbred for certain desirable qualities and markings.

Once your tank is completely cycled/mature, you should probably keep up on weekly water changes of between 25 and 50%, even if everything is going great.

 

[redbourn]

Thanks for replying.

If your ammonia and nitrites are truly zero, AND your nitrates are showing a good reading (no higher than 20, but should be at least 5) then your tank is now cycled...but you lost quite a few fish in the process, unfortunately

If you put the new fish in your 5 gallon, it's the same thing. The tank wasn't cycled, so they probably died of stress or ammonia poisoning.

But the figures for nitrite, ammonia and pH were OK in the new tank after adding the conditioner.

Also, if you happen to buy more glass/ghost cats, I'd make sure to get a group of 5-6. =] (this i know from experience, they are a true schooling fish and NEED buddies to be happy).

I did know that about ghost cats but I didn't expect them to die within 24 hours :-(

I haven't tested for nitrates.

Many years ago I had several aquariums and bred lots of fish including betas, gouramis, and zebras and never had any of these problems.

I wonder what changed?

I was surprised to read the other day that "live bearers are now much weaker than they used to be", but the poster didn't say why.

And I read this just a few minutes ago, "Honestly neons are not easy to keep fish, many of them are sickly and diseased these days. Livebearers are also normally ridden with internal parasites. Angelfish depending on source also can be variable in the quality of health".

I used to change around 1/4 of the water in my tanks every month or so and only lost fish due to old age or aggression.

The only thing I ever did about chlorine was to let the water stand for 24 hours; no conditioners etc.

Michael

P.S It seems that almost every other kid has allergies today, which neither I nor any of my friends recall having been any kind of common problem either.

 

[Rosenweiss]

You'll need to buy a nitrate test kit if you want to make sure you're cycled.

Another reason your fish might have died is how you acclimated them. Can you explain exactly how you did that?

 

[redbourn]

Yes, a PWC means a partial water change. In the 5 gallon one, it's because it hasn't been cycled. See, a cycled tank is one that has lots of bacteria growth in it, so that it can, in very little time, take all the ammonia that the fish and the fish food create, and turn it into nitrates (which are harmless in quantities under 20, unlike ammonia). Now, it's true that 1 day probably wasn't enough to kill your fish of ammonia poisoning, so it's possible that you just bought some bad livestock.

It's also true that some fish are weaker nowadays. That's because they've been inbred for certain desirable qualities and markings.

Once your tank is completely cycled/mature, you should probably keep up on weekly water changes of between 25 and 50%, even if everything is going great.

Thanks very much.

I had a tropical fish store 40 years ago and thought this would be easy.

I set up the aquarium for my daughter.

I'd never seen pink danios until a few weeks ago and I now have a problem telling platties from mollies.

I find all this stuff now about injecting colors etc pretty horrible.

The fish were beautiful before!

I almost set my daughter up with a marine aquarium and am now glad that I didn't!

I kept them without any problem then, but who knows what's changed since then?!

Michael

 

[redbourn]

You'll need to buy a nitrate test kit if you want to make sure you're cycled.

Another reason your fish might have died is how you acclimated them. Can you explain exactly how you did that?

Nitrites I tested but nitrates not, and will do so.

I didn't think that nitrate was generally a problem.

I opened and floated the bags for around 15 minutes and then gradually added water from the aquarium to the bags.

Then I poured the fish into a net letting the water go into a bowl and then put the fish in the aquarium.

I'd never done the net thing until yesterday but read that it was better than adding water from a store to my aquarium.

Michael

 

[Rosenweiss]

Nitrate isn't a problem, but unless you have a reading of nitrates you won't know you're fully cycled.

That's the proper way to acclimate, so I'm sure that your problems didn't result from temperature or pH shock.

 

[redbourn]

Two of the neons looked and still look fine but the other two still didn't look well balanced, and they were hiding out behind the heater so I did a partial water change today.

The forth one doesn't seem in bad shape but still doesn't come out.

I did add a few live plants yesterday which seemed to make them happier and the plants were from my main tank which seems stable and disease free.

Water at the same temperature and I added the nutrafin aquaplus and within 20 minutes a third neon was out with the other two; not looking great but at least it's swimming around.

The tests before I did the pwc were:

pH between 7.5 and 8.0 and ammonia between 0 and 0.6

The test ammoniak put the above two into the yellow range.

I thought the above (Yellow) to be really in the very marginal range but did the pwc anyway.

Like a few people have posted, "fish ain't what they used to be".

Michael

 

[Rosenweiss]

I'm very concerned that your ammonia is "between 0 and .6." You should have a test kit that at least has increments at the .25 and .5 levels, since anything above .25 is toxic to fish.

And if you're using test strips, they're notoriously inaccurate.

 

[redbourn]

Nitrate isn't a problem, but unless you have a reading of nitrates you won't know you're fully cycled.

That's the proper way to acclimate, so I'm sure that your problems didn't result from temperature or pH shock.

Thank you and everybody else for your kind help.

My local store didn't have a test for nitrates but I'll track one down.

I now know the importance of "cycling"!

I can honestly say though that 40 years ago my teenage friends and I used to set up aquariums, wait for 24 hours and then add fish and I don't remember having to do any "cycling", except the bicycle type :ssmile:

I did cycle my saltwater aquarium back then and used fish which is now considered cruel.

Anyway that was then and now is now.

I came across this yesterday, "4 Ways To Cycle A Freshwater Aquarium".

4 Ways To Cycle A Freshwater Aquarium | Aquariums Life and #3 would have been easy for me.

"With water and media from an old tank" - 24-48 hrs

I found the advice pretty good!

Michael

 

[Homedog98]

Check out the link in my sig. Also, what test kit are you using?

 

[Rosenweiss]

Thank you and everybody else for your kind help.

My local store didn't have a test for nitrates but I'll track one down.

I now know the importance of "cycling"!

I can honestly say though that 40 years ago my teenage friends and I used to set up aquariums, wait for 24 hours and then add fish and I don't remember having to do any "cycling", except the bicycle type :ssmile:

I did cycle my saltwater aquarium back then and used fish which is now considered cruel.

Anyway that was then and now is now.

I came across this yesterday, "4 Ways To Cycle A Freshwater Aquarium".

4 Ways To Cycle A Freshwater Aquarium | Aquariums Life and #3 would have been easy for me.

"With water and media from an old tank" - 24-48 hrs

I found the advice pretty good!

Michael

Great! It's always good to learn something! As homedog will tell you, the API master liquid test kit is an investment everyone should make, if you can find one!

 

[Homedog98]

Eek! Rosenweiss is a mind reader!!!

 

[Rosenweiss]

Eek! Rosenweiss is a mind reader!!!

XD I have my ways.