Sick Angel

[Kitekat87]

Hey guys. Looking for a bit of advice on what's wrong with my angel. I know he has fin rot which I am treating but I believe that is a secondary infection. The the only symptom he has shown has been a grey slimey patch on his body. I've been treating with an anti slime and velvet medication as I thought it may have been a parasite but any advice would be great.

He's still very active and eating well. His fins aren't getting any worse and appear to be starting to repair.

PH 6.6 although this had recently dropped to 5.8-6 (I've now added some crushed coral to rectify)
0 ammonia again there was a very slight spike of 0.25 for a day following a filter pad change
0 nitrite
10 nitrates

 

[Delapool]

Sounds solid approach - can probably think of a few things to check.


Is the grey patch all over or just one side? Size? How fast has it spread? Any flashing? Where is it on body.


Just checking but it sounds like you are thinking not fungal at all? Photos will help.


So its either parasites + bacterial OR all signs are bacterial?


What medication / ingredients are you using and how long have you been treating for.


Water chemistry looks fine to me.

 

[Kitekat87]

Sorry I forgot to attach the picture. The patch was worse than this last week so I've defo seen an improvement. The treatment has been in the tank for about 5 days but it's only a 1/2 dose due to having scaleless fish in there. I can set up a hospital tank if you think a full dose would be better for him but there were a number of fish flashing which is why I decided to treat the whole tank.
I also gave the angel a salt bath for 30 minutes each day for 3 days.
The active ingredients in the treatment are in the second pic

 

[Angellove78]

That's a big drop on your ph. The immune system on that little guy took a bad hit. Ph levels that drop that fast that much can lower fishes immune system. If I was you I'd keep treating the tank but I'd put that little guy in the hospital tank and do a full dose. What made your ph drop so much?

 

[Kitekat87]

The only thing I can think with the ph is the filters were due a clean and were quite gunky when I cleaned them. My water also has no buffering capacity so it doesn't take much for a ph swing which is why I've now added crushed coral.

 

[Kitekat87]

Do you agree it's probably a parasite and continue with that treatment or do you think it's something else like fungal or bacterial? I don't want to separate him and not treat for the right thing

 

[Angellove78]

Fungus. Imo.. he's still eating and active. Parasites usually will drain them fast to the point they wont be very active and don't eat, killing them from the inside out. Fungus sets in from the outside and eats through slowly. I know a full dose will just help him faster to recover.

 

[coralbandit]

Bacterial . Columnaris . It produces both patches that are 'slimy' not fuzzy and rot fins aka finrot...
Furan2 and kannaplex both together.
Furan everyday I think and kannaplex every other day.
Follow direstions ,plan on doing two treatments to total 10 days ...
Links on columnaris ;
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ts-1689.html&usg=AOvVaw31CC_glS6hh4rAe5K3QSC0
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...umnaris.html&usg=AOvVaw1Z4zRnhpufHCA84p_l_L7g
A salt bath won't hurt to start but links will explain it all.
It is a tough disease to cure .
IMO if it was a parasite the formaldehyde or copper would have killed it quickly.. They are both strong and effective meds used for their purpose.
I believe the B.chloride would have done in fungus as it is an antimicrobial 'sterilizer' .
Fungus looks fuzzy bacterial infections look slimy in general..

 

[Delapool]

Have you bought any fish recently in the last few weeks? Even plants. Anything with water from shop that could of introduced a parasite?


Else the flashing could just be from change in water chemistry / extra muck from filter change until it clears. Worth thinking on this as would discount if parasites or not.


Fungal I've managed to trigger with a cold water change (not the fuzzy one but more like it attacks over the slime coating of fish ie not dead tissue).


The fin rot says bacterial so you have to treat that - links above are good. We know that needs treating. The second ingredient listed will be helping on any fungal.


Would think about what the trigger could of been to set this off.


I would shift to a hospital tank in same water. Fin rot can spread I find.


Agree on that med removing parasites - it looks very effective. Copper and quinine plus rest.

 

[Kitekat87]

Yeah I had bought a new fish which I shouldn't have done because I didn't have quarantine space for it (lesson learnt). It was another angel and it died about a week after getting it with the same symptoms. Thanks for the advice guys. I'm setting up the hospital today. All other fish look fine so I'm hoping it's not spread

 

[Kitekat87]

Bacterial . Columnaris . It produces both patches that are 'slimy' not fuzzy and rot fins aka finrot...
Furan2 and kannaplex both together.
Furan everyday I think and kannaplex every other day.
Follow direstions ,plan on doing two treatments to total 10 days ...
Links on columnaris ;
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ts-1689.html&usg=AOvVaw31CC_glS6hh4rAe5K3QSC0
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...umnaris.html&usg=AOvVaw1Z4zRnhpufHCA84p_l_L7g
A salt bath won't hurt to start but links will explain it all.
It is a tough disease to cure .
IMO if it was a parasite the formaldehyde or copper would have killed it quickly.. They are both strong and effective meds used for their purpose.
I believe the B.chloride would have done in fungus as it is an antimicrobial 'sterilizer' .
Fungus looks fuzzy bacterial infections look slimy in general..

I've looked for both of the medications you recommend but it doesn't appear I can source them in the UK.

 

[Delapool]

What antibiotics can you source?

Thoughts:

Imo with a new fish and a number of fish flashing and seems to be working slowly I’d finish off the treatment in tank.

Transfer the angelfish to hospital tank and do a second treatment which should clear any chance of parasites. I assume treatment course is several days. Would try skipping the salt dips to reduce stress - that med should be effective all by itself on any parasites.

In hospital tank include antibiotics for bacterial infection. Here it would be triple sulpha (very safe) and tetracycline (not as effective in hard water for African cichlids).

People have ordered the meds that CB lists above from overseas. I carry some in stock and would really recommend the info/links he has posted. The antibiotics will start treating the bacterial issue imo.

Some thoughts. If it is a good store, I’d ask back there as chance other customers will have reported issues / they should be told they had a bad batch of fish (can be hard for them to pick).

 

[Kitekat87]

The only way I can get antibiotics is with a prescription from a vet but I'm not sure how likely that is.
I've read online that a brand called waterlife do a good treatment for bacterial infections so ill try to source that.
I've not seen any more flashing from any of the fish in the main tank. And no others are showing signs of sickness. I'll do a water change tomorrow and have a close look before deciding to redose or not.
The angel is in a hospital tank with a full dose of treatment and some salt. He seems to be doing fine. Still very active and constantly looking for food. I'll keep a close eye on him and do frequent water changes to help with his fins.

 

[Delapool]

Others have ordered through ebay, etc for the UK. That's what I do in Australia.


I used waterlife products and the treatment is good but is a mix of the malachite green, etc anti-bacterials. Not as good as furan 2. Unfortunately the US gets all the good stuff.


You could try the waterlife, won't work in serious cases but can work. Would only use in hospital tank and stop any other treatments. As per usual don't over-dose these.

 

[Kitekat87]

The angel died overnight. I don't know if it was stress or he got stuck because I found him wedged behind the filter. I did a water change in the main tank and everything seems fine in there. Keeping my fingers crossed

 

[coralbandit]

Sorry to hear about the angel.
Healthy don't usually get stuck ..
Watch your main tank and make sure not to cross contaminate it with anything from hospital tank.