swim bladder/constipation

[bigmac1878]

i have a telescopic eye calico that has either a swim bladder problem or constipation.2 weeks ago i removed him from my main tank and put him in a qt because he was floating upside down(swim bladder?) but since then, i have had him on the pea diet, but he hasn't poo-ed much(constipation?)this is the second time that i have had this problem with this fish.i noticed today that he is looking a lot more bloated than he ever has.occasionally he swims erraticaly for a brief period.while in the main tank, he did seem to go to the surface and 'gasp for air'.i also have a black moor in the same (main) tank that has never had any problems.

 

[TCTFish]

What is the diet? What foods do you offer?

 

[bigmac1878]

he is currently being fed peas for a couple of days then nothing for a couple of days and so on. when in my main tank he was being fed dried daphnia, flake food(both of which i now soak), live daphnia and bloodworm occasionally. i was also feeding frozen food. i was trying to keep their diet varied. there are also plants in the main tank for them to feed on. obviously i don't feed them all of this stuff at once.

 

[TCTFish]

dried daphnia, flake food(both of which i now soak),

I owuld assume this came about as a recommendation to keep the flakes from ballooning in the animal's intestines??? Goldfish are notorious for floating upside down and sideways because of ingesting dry food. FYI, goldfish do not have stomachs. Anyway...

I think you have too much meat protein in the diet. Goldfish should be fed a goldfish flake food. If you are feeding any other type of flake food, like for tropical fish, it should be changed. I would suggest to cut bloodworms out of the diet altogether and any other meaty foods and stick with the daphnia as a meat protein source. Veggie protein is more important. Mix a good veggie flake in with the goldfish flake and make that the staple diet. I like HBH veggie flakes. Great ingredients. It's like feeding your fish a healthy salad

Fantail goldfish are slow and do not need a lot of food. No more than what the animal can eat in a two minute time period per day divided into two or more feeds. This should be offered every other day.

Here is some info on swim bladder disease. This is still a possibility, so read up on it and perhaps do a preventative type treatment just in case. Use something mild just in case it's not related to swim bladder disease like some Melafix for the time being until more is known.

http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/freshref/swimbldr.html

It's always in good practice to test the water for any imbalances with the bio whenever you think something may be wrong. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH should be tested and please post results.

How long has the tank been going with fish in it?
What type of filter?
How long have you had the fish that's in the QT?
Has the fish pooped at all within the past few days? If so, what color is it?

 

[bigmac1878]

ph 7.2
ammonia 0ppm
nitite 0.25ppm
nitrate 30ppm
that was yesterday before i done a pwc of about 30%
this qt has been going for 12 days with just this fish in. it's about 25 litres (the tank, not the fish). i've had him for about 6 weeks and this is the 2nd time he has had this problem. as for the filter type, i think it is a fluval 1 plus
200 litres per hour. as for bowel movements, he did poop yesterday which was green due to the peas.

i started soaking the dried food because i read it on one of the posts on this forum. i'll keep the meat out of the diet and introduce more veg.

 

[TCTFish]

Is that the water quality of the QT or the main tank? I was looking for the values of the main tank.

Either tank, you want to add Prime or Amquel Plus water conditioner and a bio additive like Cycle or Nitromax to help lower nitrite and protect the fish from this toxin.

 

[Zagz]

It doesn't sound like constipation because he is eating the peas and pooping them out. Another thing you can do to help the fish with draining of his fluids is to add 1/8 tsp of epsom salts per gal to the tank.

 

[TCTFish]

Zags...eating the peas is the whole idea of making the fish poop. Peas seem to be a natural laxative. However, adding salt is a good addition to the animal's care

 

[Zagz]

Zags...eating the peas is the whole idea of making the fish poop. Peas seem to be a natural laxative. However, adding salt is a good addition to the animal's care

LOL I know the peas are used for constipation, all I meant was if the peas are being passed the constipation is most likely passed as well.

 

[bigmac1878]

Is that the water quality of the QT or the main tank? I was looking for the values of the main tank.

the values of the main tank on 25/3/06 were
PH 7.2
ammonia 0 ppm
nitrite 0.15 ppm
nitrate 40 ppm
i then done approx 25/30% pwc


the properties at this moment (i've just done a test) are
PH 7.2
ammonia 0 ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 20 ppm



with regards to the passing of the peas, he didn't pass much with in comparison to the amount he had. i skinned and chopped about 6. he's no longer floating but is still bloated. he does swim normally a lot more now, but becomes lethargic and stops altogether allowing the current to take him. about 30 mins ago i noticed what looked a long worm like thing coming from his anal opening. i assume he is trying to poo but nothing is coming out. it was about the length of his body, but is no longer there.

i have a few questions with regrds to the salt, i've bought some andrews branded salt (made by smithkline beecham) as far as i know it's epsom salt, but under a brand name. is that usually refered to as a salt bath? how often do i add the salt?when do i do a water change after addinfg the salt? and also, by what % PWC? are there any alternatives to epsom salt that do the same? what does epsom salt do? i ask so i can have a better understanding of what is happening.

i hope this is making sense. if not, i'll try to be more specific.[/u]

 

[TCTFish]

The main tank could use a lowering of nitrates. that can be done by doing small, but frequent water changes (10% two to three times a week), cut back on feeds, and use a filter media to abosrb excess nitrates like Phos-X. That stuff works good. Do the frequent water changes until the nitrates are down at about 20 to 25 ppm. This will be very important when putting the fish back into the main tank to avoid reinfestation. I have a feeling the fish has parasites. What color was that long poo you saw come out of the fish?

Salt for some freshwater fish can be an aid in respiration. It keeps the gills clean. Most salt for FW is dosed by adding a tablespoon of salt per five gallons of water. Some may have a different doseage. Check the package and go by the 'tonic' dose. The salt also helps the fish by reducing electrolyte loss.

Do keep in mind when water evaporates from the aquarium, the salt remains, so the SG actually goes up. When doing water changes, you would put in the amount of salt for the amount of water being replaced. If you are adding water to top off for evaporation, you wouldn't add more salt.

 

[bigmac1878]

Do the frequent water changes until the nitrates are down at about 20 to 25 ppm.

at what interval between tests should the nitrates be down to 20-25 ppm? the first set of results, where the nitrates where 40 ppm was a week after the previous test, whereas the second set of results which where down to 20 ppm, was only a day later. regardless of that, i done a pwc tonight of approx 10% as suggested. how often would you recommend i feed them? i normally only feed them once a day and they seem happy (main tank). they do have some plants in there as well to chew on if they want too.

the poo that was there was nothing really, just the 'thing' that usually contains the feaces. that is if there is a 'thing' that contains feaces. last time he had this problem, i saw it had bubbles in, that is what makes me think there is a 'thing'. it made me think of sausages.

i changed the nitrate removal filter just recently, 19/3. the tank i have is a rekord 70 juwel aquarium. the filter is the one that came atached to it)


in the case of the qt, i'vw also don a pwc on that tonight and added the appropriate amount of salts, 1/8 teaspoon. i've read teaspoon and tablespoon in different places. i opted for the smaller as it's easier to put more in if i'm wrong. as for adding salt after a pwc, i thought as much but i just wanted to make sure.

i think i've covered everything from the post i'm replying to.

 

[TCTFish]

Yes??? LOL

Did I miss something??? It's ok...it's only Tuesday...LOL.

 

[bigmac1878]

24 hours after adding the salt, the inside of the qt has developed a cloudy film. is this normal? the water is clear, just the inside of the tank. the fish is swimming fine.

 

[TCTFish]

Probably just an algae bloom. Is the film covering the glass? instead of suspended particles in the water? Just scrape it off. I wouldn't worry too much with it.

the poo that was there was nothing really, just the 'thing' that usually contains the feaces

What color was that 'thing'? Red? White? Or brown?

 

[bigmac1878]

the stuff is only on the class. as for the thing coming from his butt, it was clear and also very thin

 

[TCTFish]

We get that filmy stuff on our own tanks in the goldfish system. Just wipe it off with an algae scraper. There are water clarifiers that may help clear it up if there are any excess phosphates. See if your LFS would do a phosphate test. If phosphates are high, then the clarifier would help.

as for the thing coming from his butt, it was clear and also very thin

This is what I was looking for. Poop should be brown...not red, white, or clear. This is a sign of internal parasites, which can cause bloating (not always weight loss). You need the proper meds to treat the fish. There are medicated foods, but a lot of fish refuse to eat this food. Must taste awful...I don't blame them...LOL. So I'd rather opt for a med that can be placed in the water.

http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=NJ054

 

[bigmac1878]

i'm off to my LFS then to get some meds.

thanks for helping me, it's greatly appreciated. maybe one day i can do the same for someone else.

 

[TCTFish]

Keep us updated Good luck.

 

[bigmac1878]

i started my fish on a 5 day course of meds but unfortunately, on the 6th day he died. that was last saturday (8.4). i blame the meds i used as he was doing fine (ish) without them, i binned them. he never really was a well looking fish. my wife chose him because he had character, as it looks now, he had some sort of congenital defect. thanks to everyone who has helped me with this problem, especially TCTfish.

RIP
keith

2006 - 2006

gone but not forgotten.