What is wrong with my angelfish?

[Kelly5978]

Symptoms: jutting, shaking (entire body as if shivering from cold). The first angel who died, stayed at the bottom if the tank, and floated around. The one acting funny now stays at the top of the tank. He didn't even go to his territory for bed. Below Is my most recent post. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW TO HELP MY FISH! (20 gallon tank with now 3 baby angels)
Suede passed. I'm so upset. No time to even be sad, as sparkle has now spent over 24 hours at the top of the tank. There are still 0 nitrites, ammonia, under 5 nitrates. Ph a little under 8.0. I just don't understand! I did not sleep last night, trying to figure out what's wrong. After watching videos, and reading about every angelfish story online, I think it is either gill flukes or internal bacteria. Problem is, I don't know which. I am going to try tetra parasite guard. It sees to cover the most possibilities. I bought macaryn2, and e.r., to try to fight bacteria if this doesn't work, but I'm pretty sure I can't use any of these together. If anyone has had a bad experience with these meds, or has a better idea that using chemicals, please let me know. I just don't think I can watch these fish die off one by one after all the work I've put into this. And, I feel helpless as heck! I can't post a video, but again, suede lost total control of his ability to swim around, and kind of floated. Sparkle is bigger and stronger, but he keeps swimming on his sides (both), stays at the top of the tank, and lips always moving. He is still eating. I am posting this as a separate thread also, in hopes I will get more opinions before putting meds into my tank. Thank you!

 

[Mebbid]

Since the OP is using a cell phone for her forum use I thought I would paste the continuation of an ongoing conversation here in hopes of a second or third opinion.

I have melafix, parasite guard (which is supposed to cure everything except bacterial), macaryn2, erythromycin (supposed to be for bacterial). I took out my carbon, and put the parasite guard in the tank. I hate to get my hopes up, but sparkle twitched thru it a few times, and I swear she started swimming stronger and straighter. This medicine says only use a total of 3 times TOTAL, and leave 48 hours between doses. I'm watching them for any agitation, and will do a 20% water change after 48 hours. How will I know if it worked? I mean, obviously, if he's not at the top, and stops jerking, but most medicines say to make sure you finish the full dose recommended (typically 5 days). Sounds like this is a one time deal. Should I treat for bacteria now, or see how it goes?

 

[Kelly5978]

Thanks so much! People are probably sick of hearing my pleas. Sorry. Just really want to figure this out and save my fish!

 

[f1shg33kz]

To me, it sounds like a parasite. Where did you get the Angels? this link has a list of possible issues with their causes, does anything match? Diseases in the Aquarium: How to Identify Common Tropical Fish Parasites

 

[Kelly5978]

http://youtu.be/06DFMvnmBgo is my fish on 6/25. Before the problems. Did I upload correctly?

 

[Kelly5978]

http://youtu.be/GBQeuwfOoR4 this is today. I swear he has a bruise under his gill. And all of them are rubbing against the side of the tank

 

[Kelly5978]

http://youtu.be/GBQeuwfOoR4 is sparkle today. They all rub on the glass

 

[Kelly5978]

This is poor suede the night he died hospital tank http://youtu.be/l6wDivXSTDw

 

[Kelly5978]

Sparkle 2 days ago. Beginning of the end? ;(

 

[Kelly5978]

http://youtu.be/niwgpiljBoo

 

[f1shg33kz]

I'm not seeing anything that screams bacterial or fungal infection. I'd try the parasite treatment. Also, do you have any decorations in the tank? Tall fake plants will help your angels feel more secure.

 

[Kelly5978]

That's why the waters cloudy....parasite guard in there. I'm praying it works. Should I do the second dose tomorrow?

 

[f1shg33kz]

That's why the waters cloudy....parasite guard in there. I'm praying it works. Should I do the second dose tomorrow?

You are supposed to wait 48 hours, then preform a 25% water change before dosing the tank again. I hope they pull through for you.

 

[Kelly5978]

Okay, he seemed a lot better today. So, I did 25% water change, (prime, a splash of stress coat, and 50/50 tap / drinking water), added new carbon filter (cause stupid bf threw old one away). And he's worse. His tail is clamped now. He stays either at the very top, or very bottom. He ate, but returned to bottom. I noticed he sparkles in the dark. I hate to throw more meds at him. Could there be ammonia in my water (because used new filter cartridge) that my test isn't picking up? All of them look unhappy. And only the big 2 have glittery sparkles on them (like i shine a flashlight at them in the dark and they look like someone threw sparkle on them. Is it color? Or velvet?

 

[f1shg33kz]

When you add bottled water, you are messing with the pH of the tank, this can cause pH swings. That may have stressed them out. Also, carbon will absorb medications and prevent your fish from getting the proper dosage. Carbon is great for once you've completed treatment and you want to get all the meds out. I don't think you're at the point were you want to be removing meds.

I'm not entirely sure what kind of sparkles you are referring to. Pearling (The shiney scales) has been bred in to Angelfish and is a desirable trait. I'll attach a couple pictures of my Angels so you have a reference good "sparkles"

I'd give it a day or two, let them calm down. If they are still looking bad I'd try another parasite treatment. Make sure you don't have any carbon in the filter when you treat the tank.

Do you have a full shot of the tank? Barren tanks can make Angels feel very uncomfortable and add stress to the situation.

 

[bob mccoy]

well hun im sory for your losses it definatly sounds like an internal parasite. im a breeder of them and have went through the same thing . mine tend to get skinny and eventualy disorientated then pass. if I can help shoot me a pm

 

[Kelly5978]

I can't seem to pm you bob, will you please message me? So I can respond? The sparkles are probably nothing. I'm grasping at straws. But I just can't figure it out. know they're just fish, but it's more about how much time and effort I've put into this. I don't want new fish! (Been fighting with bf, who feels I'm obsessed and care more bout fish than him!). But I just can't leave it alone til I figure it out! Even if I can't save the fish, I have to know what I did wrong. Honestly, I think I messed up by using the same net for 10 and 20 gallon. I don't anymore, but did at first. I HAD gourami in my 10 gallon, who got columnarus or hemorraghic septicemia (pretty sure it was the latter). I know I go back and forth, but diagnosing a fish is hard! With a flashlight, they look gold sparkled....so I think velvet. Sparkle has a "bruise" under her left gill, so I think gill disease or flukes. She also looks red where her little side fins meet her body, and her eyes are turning red, so I think septicemia. I can't treat what I don't know. I put the parasite guard in a few days ago, and I swear she seemed a lite better. But my bf came home telling me that bottled RO drinking water has bad bacteria in it, and that they got bacterial issues. He changed 50% of water in both tanks, using tap water and prime only (I had slowly gotten the ph down to 7.8 by mixing half tap, half bottled water....and he came in and screwed it up. Back up to 8 already. He said angelfish from a pet store are used to high ph, and I'm hurting them with the bottled water. He put macaryn2 and maracide in the 20 gallon, and macaryn2 and macaryn in the 10 gallon. I personally think sparkle is worse, and the tank is a cloudy mess, but he says it takes time. Sparkle has a very faint red streak on his dorsal fin, so I immediately checked, but ammonia and nitrites are still 0. Bf says there's probably NOTHING wrong with them, except I keep trying to do things like an expert, which I'm not, and I'm stressing them to death. Maybe he's right. I'm so frustrated! I will post a link to a video of full tank when I get home. I have tons of hiding places, and fake plants, but they are lower. I swear, they were all so happy the first month! Not even territory disputes! Sparkle sleeps outside the tree stump (or used to), silver sleeps in the big leaves, Silk sleeps IN the treestump, and Suede slept in the mountain castle. Maybe I'm just not good at this

 

[Kelly5978]

I can't get pic to link from my phone. If anyone has time, I posted today's pics (and pics of my gourami that passed to an album "what's wrong with my angels" on my profile. My name is either kelly5978 or angellover. If anyone has time, please look. There is also an album with full tank shots. The angels seem to be stressing more in the medicine. Theyve gotten too much (parasite guard...which lasted 2 days, 1 day of peace, then bf changed water out 50% to tap, and put maricide and maracyn2 in tank. today, they got second dose of maracyn2. this is all in 5 days!!!) and i have to correct my earlier post. the angels gor maracyn 2 and maracide....not maracyn1. ghe 10 gallon is what got the 2 maracyns. and they seem to be getting better. And, I'm worried about ammonia, since there's no carbon in the filter. Should I just do a water change and hope for the best? I would feel awful if they passed because I did TOO much trying to save them. I swear if they pull through this, I'm leaving them alone unless I get a bad reading. Then again, I couldn't just sit and watch them die one by one. I wish I could figure this out. It's eating me up.

 

[Mebbid]

I can't get pic to link from my phone. If anyone has time, I posted today's pics (and pics of my gourami that passed to an album "what's wrong with my angels" on my profile. My name is either kelly5978 or angellover. If anyone has time, please look. There is also an album with full tank shots. The angels seem to be stressing more in the medicine. Theyve gotten too much (parasite guard...which lasted 2 days, 1 day of peace, then bf changed water out 50% to tap, and put maricide and maracyn2 in tank. today, they got second dose of maracyn2. this is all in 5 days!!!) and i have to correct my earlier post. the angels gor maracyn 2 and maracide....not maracyn1. ghe 10 gallon is what got the 2 maracyns. and they seem to be getting better. And, I'm worried about ammonia, since there's no carbon in the filter. Should I just do a water change and hope for the best? I would feel awful if they passed because I did TOO much trying to save them. I swear if they pull through this, I'm leaving them alone unless I get a bad reading. Then again, I couldn't just sit and watch them die one by one. I wish I could figure this out. It's eating me up.

Wow, My FIRST piece of advice to to take a step back and take a deep breath while counting to 10. Panicking and changing too many things in a tank is going to further stress the fish, either hiding the normal symptoms or causing them to get worse.

Second: As for the bottled water, Using R/O water is only advisable for extreme circumstances. R/O Water is almost solely used by the salt water tanks. This is a safe thing to use because the salt has additives that will buffer the water, change the pH to correct levels, and add add essential nutrients into the water.

The biggest issue with using R/O water in a fresh water tank is that you are taking away the buffering capabilities of the water. Removing the buffering capacity of the water will further cause pH swings in between the day / night cycle (It happens regularly anyways but the difference SHOULD be minimal) With Angels being a sensitive fish, the changes to pH will stress them a lot. Your BF also added fuel to the fire by reversing the changes you made by raising the pH back up with the tap water without an acclimation period for them.

Carbon isn't used for ammonia removal in a tank. It's primary use in an aquarium is the removal of medicines, some sources of cloudiness, and a few other impurities in the water. It is almost completely unnecessary to have in a tank, and in fact if I didn't have tannins leaching into my water I wouldn't use it at all.

Combining the use of Maracide and Maracyn "shouldn't" have a detrimental effect on the fish. One is an antibiotic while the other is a combination of malachite green which is an effective anti parasitic drug and chitosan which doesn't really do a whole lot in the medicine. If you noticed the fish becoming more stressed after a particular medicine, then try to drop the dosage by 1/4 or so. It should still have some effect on what you are treating for as well as less stress to the fish. Also, if you have a deep layer of substrate as well as a lot of decorations then your total tank volume could be quite a bit lower than the water volume you are treating for.

Also, Are you using aquarium salt in your tank? It is an extremely effective assistant in treating many fish illnesses.

What is the temperature of your tank?

 

[Daviddes]

I would suggest a 20% water change, clean filter and make sure the air bubbler is running well (could be suffocating ). Hope they get better soon.