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Old 04-02-2014, 02:13 PM   #181
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Well 2 mols of acidity are produced for every 1 mole of ammonia oxidized. I do not know how to convert that into usable information though. That's just the chem reaction of oxidation.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:18 PM   #182
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Except that you can have pH higher than "stall level" and be out of kH, can't you?
You can have pH 7.2 water that has 0 kH, or is that incorrect?

I guess you could. In a normally running aquarium kh would be replenished with water changes and alkalinity used would not be enough to affect fish. If someone was running an aquarium on 0dkh then I'm sure ph would start to fall pretty rapidly.

In a fishless cycle I don't think ph of 7.2 would hold very long without a buffer.

If your tap is 7.2 and your dkh was 0 then that is what the water has settled at with its chemical makeup. Since there is no extra acids added to the fray then it can hold pretty stable.

This is how I understand it anyway I could be wrong.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:21 PM   #183
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Well 2 mols of acidity are produced for every 1 mole of ammonia oxidized. I do not know how to convert that into usable information though. That's just the chem reaction of oxidation.

This is good. I'm just thinking if the end result would be able to tell is anything. Even if we knew how much acids was produced from 16ppm ammonia conversion, how would we tie that in without knowing the exact hydrogen ion ratio?

I think the next experiment is to see if this initial bicarb dose alters ph above 8.4 and whether it holds steady throughout the cycle.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:23 PM   #184
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But how can any nitrification occur at all with 0 dkh?

If I have a tank with pH 7.2 and 0kH, I would expect that nothing at all happens with nitrification. There is no alkalinity available for the bacteria to eat. Therefore nitrification would halt.

yes/no? Maybe I am just still not grasping this.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:50 PM   #185
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Yes I see what you are saying now. It does make sense.

Look at your posts on the first page when ph starts to drop significantly. Why has kh not budged before ph starts to drop?
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:54 PM   #186
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How does ph up work. If it doesn't add carbonates then maybe you could use it as an experiment?
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:55 PM   #187
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You could strip the water of carbonates then add ph up to get a desired level then see if you can start a cycle with 0 alkalinity?
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:31 PM   #188
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Or better still don't add any baking soda at the start of the next cycle. Since your tap water has very low dkh and an averagish ph you could does your 16ppm ammonia and just leave it be. IF it stalls and dkh depletes down to 0 and you add baking soda and it Kick starts again then you have nailed it and you can have the Nobel prize.

The penny has dropped now I do see what you are saying.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:42 PM   #189
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Btw apparently sodium bicarbonate will try to keep the ph level at 8.4 (we know this already) this is where it gets tricky.

If the ph is say 9.4 then the bicarbonates will lend hydrogen ions back to the water to reduce ph to whatever the buffers preferable ph level is. From a baking soda point if view this is 8.4.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:13 PM   #190
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Yes I see what you are saying now. It does make sense.

Look at your posts on the first page when ph starts to drop significantly. Why has kh not budged before ph starts to drop?
I think there was something else amiss there. Why did I get a few days of bright fuschia tests? Maybe I forgot to shake the test solution. I don't know... I have a problem with those results. Why did pH abruptly drop out of nowhere?? It really makes no sense.
Just another note for the next round to take notice of.
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