Cycled and Planted Tank, Still Need Water Changes?

[Bubs]

Out of interest would you have a link on this?

I do not have a link for the exact study that I was talking about before, I rea about that quite a while ago, before I got this computer even, I don't remember exactly how I stumbled upon it or what the site was.
However, there is a different link that I happen to have bookmarked that shares some similar views, and there is an article attached (which I haven't read yet) that apparently talks about a study done using salt with channel catfish to increase survival rates. Survival from what, I'm not sure, because I haven't read that far yet. But what I've read so far is pretty interesting.
Anyway, here it is: Salt use in Freshwater Aquariums
Hope you find it useful, or at least interesting.

Old school way was to add 1 tablespoon of Aquarium Salt per 5g.

I used to set up all my tanks that way.

But now I have planted tanks. And many plants are intolerant of too much salt. I also keep Corydoras. Experts tell me they are sensitive to salt. I have a club member that breeds them.

One of the issues adding salt to a tank is that at low levels it is hard to measure exactly how much you have. And over time salt builds up.

I currently never add salt to my tanks.

If I had an outbreak of Ich, I would isolate the fish and use heat and salt to treat it as a temporary measure.

I sometimes have rare plants in my tanks. I also keep tiny species of Coreys. So I will always aim for ideal conditions for these fish. I also breed Shrimp.

I use a teaspoon per 10 gallons in tanks with catfish and sensitive plants. In tanks with hardy plants I use a little more. A couple times a year I do a double dose of the usual amount of salt with the cats and then I don't add more for the next few water changes (until its back to containing the usual amount, I have to do the math every time)
I certainly have seen what a constant high amount of salt can do to cats, particularly corys and otto cats (I haven't noticed an unusual death rate with any of the shrimp or plants however, but I'll pay more attention now, maybe I'm just missing it), I've warned against it, but to no avail. And currently I haven't kept any corys or ottos, but after I move my 2 comets into a pond in late spring I plant to convert their 30 gallon into my catfish tank. I'm going to have 3 corys, 6 glass cats, and 3 ottos. It will also be fairly heavily planted. Thats technically (at least from books I've read) 9" over stocked once everyone's full grown, but with all of the plants it will have plus the water agitation I plan to add with the filter and bio wheels, I think everyone will breathe just fine. Its still just an idea, I may decide to have less. Anyway, I will certainly keep this in mind, but I think I will still add small amounts of salt and see how they do.
I do have a couple of armored sucker mouth cats (bristlenose sp.) however, and I have had them both for almost 2.5 years now, they are doing really well as far as I can tell, and that is with using constant low salt levels plus an occasional double dose. They've never been sick, I got them at not even 2" long and now they are both about 5". Active too. So, I'm not extremely worried, but I'll see what happens.

I'll have to read more about the opposing side of this issue, I didn't realize how many people don't treat their cats with salt at all, for some reason I was under the impression that most people just used small amounts.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Coursair]

FYI if you go with a Dwarf Species of Corydoras 1" you'll have plenty of room for 6-10 of them.

Otos, I'd increase to 5-6.

Glass Cats should be 6 or more as well.

These are all social species.

They all appreciate live plants. The Glass Cats like some floating plants and mine have done best with frozen or live foods.

We no longer use inches per gallon.
We use activity level, swimming level and adult size to figure stocking levels.

In heavily planted tanks with pristine water you can have a few more fish if they have low to normal bioloads IMHO.

This is an old vid of my 10g
http://youtu.be/aptmdICahvM

Cory habrosus
CPDs
Otos
Shrimp
Threadfin Rainbows.

Except Otos, only Nano fish in this tank.


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[ScaryFatKidGT]

Idk why people are always huge dicks about posts like this....

Basically it sums up as this, people don't want to do water changes cuz they are lazy and both the methods to get around doing them require more time, effort and money than doing them, so the answer is almost always "Just do water changes and stop trying to get around it". Now if your talking theoretically then sure, you could get a 75g or larger tank have 6 Neons or CPD and 4 cory cats in it and thats it, a ton of plants, top off the tank with carefully "fortified" RO water using $1000's of dollars in measuring equipment to make sure your dossing every fert exact, and are adding the exact amount of each mineral to maintain proper TDS, hardness, PH and what not and then go through the tank with a tweezers picking out excess fish poo, dead plant madder and trimmings and such......... or you could just poor stuff in the tank, maybe over feed the fish a little so everyone gets some and do light gravel vacs/water changes.............

The other method involves getting a tank chiller/in-line heather combo and constantly having, new some how conditioned, water from your pipes being pumped through the tank slowly but again this has issues and the set up cost is in the $1000's.

The only other way I could see doing this is in your filter set up, if you had a lightly stocked 75g tank with an FX6 or 2 on it or a bunch of smaller canisters or a sump and cleaned them, thus changing out the water in them every so often you could maybe get by, but your still technically doing a "water change".

 

[ImACoolguy]

Geez. Some of you need to calm down.

I agree with OP's viewpoint of WHY?

I know when I first started and my tank was cycled and the water looked crystal clear I would think "Why do I need to change the water it looks fine?"

In the beginning I neglected my water changes because my water "looked fine". I ended up having like 160ppm of nitrates in 2 tanks, but without testing the water you would never know. Because 3/4 of my tanks are non planted I do my weekly water changes. I learned the hard way.

I also agree, we as fish keepers, should have a questioning attitude! If you don't understand why you are wrong ask them. I got told last night my suggestion was completely wrong. Maybe it is, I'm not offended and not going to throw insults... I want to learn why I am wrong so I won't make that mistake again.

We should be free to ask even the "dumb questions" because we were all a beginner at some point. I'm willing to bet someone helped you learn your stuff. Use your skills to help those that want to learn and be free of the criticism for having an open mind and asking questions.

Even if it's a simple question of "Why change the water?"

This post helped me have a better understanding on the chemistry side of why we do water changes.


Caleb

~10g tiger barbs
~45g ick problems/loach and 5 tetras left.
~75g going to be African cichlids

 

[Brookster123]

It's simple really.. here's why...statistics. take a poll, how many of you do wc's and have a healthy tank? How many do nothing and have a healthy tank?? there are so many things out of our control in this hobby.. why take away the one thing that is very simply controlled.
Ps- get of your soapbox noobs

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[Bubs]

Idk why people are always huge dicks about posts like this....

Basically it sums up as this, people don't want to do water changes cuz they are lazy and both the methods to get around doing them require more time, effort and money than doing them, so the answer is almost always "Just do water changes and stop trying to get around it".

Sometimes people ask this because they're lazy. But not everyone. I have a full time job and a part time job, I work almost 60 hours a week. I also have 1 29 gallon, 2 20 gallons, 2 10 gallons, and 4 5 gallons. 2 dogs. 1 snake. 14 tarantulas. 3 scorpions. A dubia roach colony and a meal worm colony.
Taking care of these animals takes up most of the tiny bit of spare time that I have, and the rest is usually spent running errands, doing projects (often for my pets), tending to my plants, cleaning, cooking, or reading about my animals. I'm not complaining, I can handle it, and I like doing it. BUT, if there were a way to make it easier while keeping all of my pets happy and still in tip top shape, I would absolutely, %100, positively do it and not feel bad about it one single bit. And after everything else I'd still have to do, it would be difficult for me to feel lazy.
That's just me though.

Geez. Some of you need to calm down.

I agree with OP's viewpoint of WHY?

I know when I first started and my tank was cycled and the water looked crystal clear I would think "Why do I need to change the water it looks fine?"

In the beginning I neglected my water changes because my water "looked fine". I ended up having like 160ppm of nitrates in 2 tanks, but without testing the water you would never know. Because 3/4 of my tanks are non planted I do my weekly water changes. I learned the hard way.

I also agree, we as fish keepers, should have a questioning attitude! If you don't understand why you are wrong ask them. I got told last night my suggestion was completely wrong. Maybe it is, I'm not offended and not going to throw insults... I want to learn why I am wrong so I won't make that mistake again.

We should be free to ask even the "dumb questions" because we were all a beginner at some point. I'm willing to bet someone helped you learn your stuff. Use your skills to help those that want to learn and be free of the criticism for having an open mind and asking questions.

Even if it's a simple question of "Why change the water?"

This post helped me have a better understanding on the chemistry side of why we do water changes.


Caleb

~10g tiger barbs
~45g ick problems/loach and 5 tetras left.
~75g going to be African cichlids

Thanks, even though you kinda called my question stupid. Just pickin, just pickin. Yes, its a pretty basic question.
Its nice to know that there are some understanding people on this forum. For the most part though, pretty harsh and cold compared to others I've been to. A little disappointed in the fish community right now.
Maybe its just because I haven't been doing the online thing for a while now and people have changed since before. I'm beginning to ramble.
But anyway I'll stick around because I got a few people who responded with good points who were nice enough not to make fun of me or be sarcastic.
Hahahaha.
Thanks for your post.

 

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Sometimes people ask this because they're lazy. But not everyone. I have a full time job and a part time job, I work almost 60 hours a week. I also have 1 29 gallon, 2 20 gallons, 2 10 gallons, and 4 5 gallons. 2 dogs. 1 snake. 14 tarantulas. 3 scorpions. A dubia roach colony and a meal worm colony.
Taking care of these animals takes up most of the tiny bit of spare time that I have, and the rest is usually spent running errands, doing projects (often for my pets), tending to my plants, cleaning, cooking, or reading about my animals. I'm not complaining, I can handle it, and I like doing it. BUT, if there were a way to make it easier while keeping all of my pets happy and still in tip top shape, I would absolutely, %100, positively do it and not feel bad about it one single bit. And after everything else I'd still have to do, it would be difficult for me to feel lazy.
That's just me though.

Yeah maybe I shouldn't have said lazy but if you don't have time for it drop a couple tanks/pets. Most people I'm talking about have 1 tank and say they don't have time for it, then don't have it that simply, if you really want to reduce water changes tho it will cost more like buying an RO unit for top offs.

 

[Bubs]

FYI if you go with a Dwarf Species of Corydoras 1" you'll have plenty of room for 6-10 of them.
Otos, I'd increase to 5-6.
Glass Cats should be 6 or more as well.
These are all social species.
They all appreciate live plants. The Glass Cats like some floating plants and mine have done best with frozen or live foods.
We no longer use inches per gallon.
We use activity level, swimming level and adult size to figure stocking levels.
In heavily planted tanks with pristine water you can have a few more fish if they have low to normal bioloads IMHO.
This is an old vid of my 10g
http://youtu.be/aptmdICahvM
Cory habrosus
CPDs
Otos
Shrimp
Threadfin Rainbows.
Except Otos, only Nano fish in this tank.
Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

I wasn't using inches per gallon. I was worried about surface area. And I was using adult size. I miss calculated though.
But it doesn't matter, I was thinking about it a lot today. I'm gonna wait until I have a 55 for the glass cats. For the 29, I'll get debauwis instead since they don't get so large. I think I'll pass on the otos for this tank cuz I don't like how they'd look with the debauwis. I don't know of any dwarf cory sp. that I think would look good with the debs, so I'll go with a good group of normal sized ones. If my water does well with those guys, I may add a third cat sp. but I'll have to think on that because currently I can't think of one that would look nice with them that would be compatible in this set up. Or, maybe I'll just get more debs. Haha, actually, some big japonicas might look nice in there, or bamboo shrimp. Not cats, but won't distract from the cats too much and won't take much space, but will give some more movement to different parts of the tank.
Anyway, still just an idea. I've got time to figure it all out. Thanks for the suggestions though.

Yes, I feed live and frozen, sometimes freeze dried or high quality flake if I'm in a hurry.
I'm gonna be experimenting with my own frozen mix soon, when I can find the time.

Your tank looks great. I'm just in love with the danios. Seriously, gorgeous.

 

[Coursair]

Thank you.

I love my CPDs. I call them my tiny Trout

I'd never heard of the Debauwi Catfish. Apparently there are two lookalike species.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=603




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[Bubs]

Yeah maybe I shouldn't have said lazy but if you don't have time for it drop a couple tanks/pets. Most people I'm talking about have 1 tank and say they don't have time for it, then don't have it that simply, if you really want to reduce water changes tho it will cost more like buying an RO unit for top offs.

Like I said, I can handle it, and I don't mind. I was just saying to make my point. I don't mean to sound so defensive. Its hard to portray what mood you're in through text.
Anyway. Thanks for the additional info.

 

[Bubs]

Thank you.

I love my CPDs. I call them my tiny Trout

I'd never heard of the Debauwi Catfish. Apparently there are two lookalike species.

PlanetCatfish.com -Pareutropius debauwi • Schilbeidae • Cat-eLog




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You're welcome. I don't understand why they're not more popular.

Good to know, I'll have to learn the difference.
I've been to that link before, but I don't see anything about the look alike sp. I'm sure I can look it up though.

 

[Coursair]

You're welcome. I don't understand why they're not more popular.



Good to know, I'll have to learn the difference.

I've been to that link before, but I don't see anything about the look alike sp. I'm sure I can look it up though.

In the article it states
"Often confused with Paratropius buffei, which has a third line around mid-body that runs about half across the body from the head back."


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