filtration???

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I was ignorant about proper fish care, every 2 weeks I used to emty the tank and wash the aquarium gravel and filters and never cycled or tested the water
 
Carbon media can remove things vital for the plants, people with very well balanced planted tanks have seen improvements in the plants when they removed the carbon. You may not have seen this if your tanks are not that well balanced, so just because you haven't experienced (or tried) it doesn't mean it is not the case.
 
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Since this is a discussion about media...Is this better for bacteria to grow on? It came with the AquaClear 70 filter. Or are the rings better?
 
Fishguy2727 said:
Carbon media can remove things vital for the plants, people with very well balanced planted tanks have seen improvements in the plants when they removed the carbon. You may not have seen this if your tanks are not that well balanced, so just because you haven't experienced (or tried) it doesn't mean it is not the case.

:) :) :) Thanks for ur input!!!
 
Carbon media can remove things vital for the plants, people with very well balanced planted tanks have seen improvements in the plants when they removed the carbon. You may not have seen this if your tanks are not that well balanced, so just because you haven't experienced (or tried) it doesn't mean it is not the case.

It doesn't remove any "things" that plants need. That myth has been perpetuated by people that don't understand how activated carbon works, but instead believe it to be some kind of miracle chemical sponge that indiscriminately takes anything out of the water. That is simply not the case. Plants don't rely on any form of organics in the water column, or else we would be dosing them directly. But we don't. We dose inorganic salts, which are unaffected by carbon. People might try and blame their carbon for balance issues, but their scapegoating it for some other issue. The science simply doesn't support their theory.

PS. I don't use carbon in my tanks unless I occasion calls for it. But when I do use it, I see no difference.
 
Yes sir. Everything we feed is plants is a salt? I guess all those plant and reef keepers who saw an improvement when they removed carbon must be mistaken, you should let them know you know their tank better than they do. (I will give my hail salute to you and goose step out of here now.)

To anyone ELSE reading: carbon doesn't grab the bad things and let all the good things get by. Many people have found that removing carbon from the filter leads to an improvement in how well their plants and reefs do, it has even been shown in some cases to be the only cause of HLLE in some cichlids (not a rule though, those were the rare cases, HLLE is only rarely caused by carbon filtration). It hides the problems that a lack of water changes will cause (like discoloration and odor). If you are doing adequate water changes there is absolutely no need or benefit from carbon filtration EXCEPT when you need to remove meds. Other than that it is break even at best, with a lot of evidence pointing to the possibility of harm to many types of inhabitants.

Very little of the surface area in Biomax is in the hollow center, it is effectively all in the pores. AquaClear's biomedia is also called Biomax, effectively the exact same product.

Just go with Seachem Matrix, more bioavailable surface area.
 
Yes sir. Everything we feed is plants is a salt? I guess all those plant and reef keepers who saw an improvement when they removed carbon must be mistaken, you should let them know you know their tank better than they do. (I will give my hail salute to you and goose step out of here now.)

To anyone ELSE reading: carbon doesn't grab the bad things and let all the good things get by. Many people have found that removing carbon from the filter leads to an improvement in how well their plants and reefs do, it has even been shown in some cases to be the only cause of HLLE in some cichlids (not a rule though, those were the rare cases, HLLE is only rarely caused by carbon filtration). It hides the problems that a lack of water changes will cause (like discoloration and odor). If you are doing adequate water changes there is absolutely no need or benefit from carbon filtration EXCEPT when you need to remove meds. Other than that it is break even at best, with a lot of evidence pointing to the possibility of harm to many types of inhabitants.

Very little of the surface area in Biomax is in the hollow center, it is effectively all in the pores. AquaClear's biomedia is also called Biomax, effectively the exact same product.

Just go with Seachem Matrix, more bioavailable surface area.

thanks alot as i read this im guessing that carbon its one of those topics that cause debate in the planted aquatics world.

also im not sure if this fits into place but being filter and uv sterilizers are usually hooked to a filter my question is will the help improve the water quality without hurting or slowing the plants growth process?????
 
UV sterilizers can kill algae, bacteria, parasites, basically anything that can be free floating in the water. Their wattage and flow rate determine which of these they will kill. Most only kill algae, which can be helpful in a planted tank that is not perfectly balanced. With higher wattage and/or lower flow more things will be killed. Many people use them to help keep pathogens under control. If you already have one you might as well run it. Just make sure to keep the bulb fresh (replace every 6 months) or it is pointless.
 
UV sterilizers can kill algae, bacteria, parasites, basically anything that can be free floating in the water. Their wattage and flow rate determine which of these they will kill. Most only kill algae, which can be helpful in a planted tank that is not perfectly balanced. With higher wattage and/or lower flow more things will be killed. Many people use them to help keep pathogens under control. If you already have one you might as well run it. Just make sure to keep the bulb fresh (replace every 6 months) or it is pointless.

thanks, ya i already had it, it came with my tank, oh ok good thing i just order 2 from ebay i paid 37 buck for both or i could have gone to the lfs and paid 45 for onr
 
Yes sir. Everything we feed is plants is a salt? I guess all those plant and reef keepers who saw an improvement when they removed carbon must be mistaken, you should let them know you know their tank better than they do. (I will give my hail salute to you and goose step out of here now.)

To anyone ELSE reading: carbon doesn't grab the bad things and let all the good things get by. Many people have found that removing carbon from the filter leads to an improvement in how well their plants and reefs do, it has even been shown in some cases to be the only cause of HLLE in some cichlids (not a rule though, those were the rare cases, HLLE is only rarely caused by carbon filtration). It hides the problems that a lack of water changes will cause (like discoloration and odor). If you are doing adequate water changes there is absolutely no need or benefit from carbon filtration EXCEPT when you need to remove meds. Other than that it is break even at best, with a lot of evidence pointing to the possibility of harm to many types of inhabitants.

Wow, attitude much? The snark really isn't called for.

The relation between HLLE/HITH is hotly debated at best. There was a study done with certain saltwater species, but nothing with cichlids that I know of. There has also been debate over whether the carbon itself causes the problem, or if its a result of inadequate washing resulting in carbon dust. Being as nothing empirical has been done and all the results are largely qualitative or anecdotal, we still don't really know much about the pathology of HITH/HLLE.

But being as we are talking about plants and their nutrients, I'm not sure what reef keeping or animal disease has to do with anything.

I've seen some plant fertilizer makers say that you should not run carbon with their products as it removes "large molecules", but after looking at their ingredient their products included "Vitamins" and stimulating chemicals, both of which would be adsorbed onto carbon, which most other fertilizers will NOT include. The only thing that might get adsorbed is the iron chelate, but I doubt that would be either, as it is too water soluble. Iodide would also be adsorbed, but that is largely inconsequential to plants. But yes, to my knowledge, no one adds non-salts to a tank.

And I couldn't find any account of people removing carbon and seeing improvements. I did find one quote by Tom Barr saying that if anything you see improvements after adding carbon. I did find a lot of people saying that it removes nutrients, but no one seems to know how or which one..... It's just an idea that has been repeated so much that it is generally treated as fact, but there is NO science to back it up, but plenty to disprove it. People have a tendency to draw conclusions based on speculation. Look at the fad of HCG for dieting, which failed to beat a placebo in a double blind study. Same thing here.


Also, no one is advocating the constant use of carbon needlessly. It's simply a tool that can be used if needed.
 
well just getting off topic for a second, weight loss its 7 percent mental, 15 diet and 15 exercise , back to topic so technically it safe to say that carbon its pretty much a cover up for not keeping up with pwc's weekly and to remove odors and medications?????
 
Carbon when you need a wc is like a bandaid when you need stiches. Sure it will help, but its not as good as what you really need
 
Talk about regurgitating bad info, the carbon dust idea. I see it all the time, but no one has ever explained how this in any way even could theoretically cause HLLE, let alone any actual facts to show it really does (or even did in just one case). The facts are simply not there for that idea.

Yes, with all the regurgitation out there HLLE and HITH (NOT the same thing) is confusing. I have done tons of research with these topics both with primary research articles and direct research with aquarists and found that one huge problem is people lumping them together as HLLE/HITH. They are NOT the same. The fact that there is so much 'debate' (really just regurgitated misunderstanding) is because everyone lumps them together even though the symptoms are not even the same. The amount of misunderstanding alone should be a flashing light saying 'we are obviously on the wrong path here'. An even bigger mistake is talking about SW and FW HLLE as if they are the same. Ich and marine white spot aren't the same. FW and SW parasites aren't the same. Why lump FW HLLE and SW HLLE together?

Scientific studies have shown that HITH (narrow, deep holes mainly on the head that may include white discharge, found in discus and FW angelfish) is parasite based. It is caused by Hexamita spp. and Spironucleus vortens, both of which can be treated with metronidazole.

HLLE (wide, shallow holes that do not include any discharge, most commonly seen in oscars, jaguar cichlids, red devils, etc.) is not caused by parasites. In most cases it is caused by poor food and water quality. There have been a few cases where people fixed those but the problem didn't go away. They hear about the carbon idea and try it. They remove the carbon and the HLLE goes away. They put it back and it comes back, they remove it permanently and it never comes back. That shows that in those cases (although rare) it was caused by the use of carbon filtration. This shows that yes, carbon does remove good things.

I am guessing you don't do reef because although it is present in planted tank keeping it is rare, in reefs it is a much more common understanding that in many tanks (again, not all) the use of carbon can have negative effects (the corals just don't do as well, they don't open quite as large, have as good of colors, or grow quite as well). You don't have to know exactly which vitamins and other nutrients are removed to know it can cause negative effects in well balanced tanks because it removes good things in addition to bad.

Make up your mind. You come on saying plant ferts don't contain this, only salts, etc. then say that some do contain other things and even the manufacturers say not to use carbon because their products will not work as well. I guess they are mistaken, they should have checked with you first. The manufacturers know their products better than you do. Obviously they are on to something, you should try to keep up.
 
If you do enough water changes you won't see any problems by not having carbon. You may see bad signs long term if you do use carbon. Do water changes (at least 25% weekly or more if needed to keep the nitrate under 20ppm before water changes).
 
i knew about the carbon on sw tanks i was told to not use it on my reef.

oh ok so pretty much the use of carbon its just cosmetic and by saying that is ppl just like to use it but not necessary, cool thanks i think i got it, also i do 50% pwc give or take weekly =)

sorry i didnt want any1 arguing =(
 
It is debating as long as long people stick to facts, when they just start yelling, it is an argument. That is when I stop. When you argue with an idiot no one watching can tell the difference.

There are certain uses for carbon, for example it can remove the toxins in a tank with leather corals. There are benefits of using it, after all it does remove bad things. The problem is the good stuff it removes in the process. Some people use it for short periods of time, for example for 24 hours once each month. This removes the bad things without constantly removing the good as well, win win.

It is one of many things that can have subtle effects, like all those plant and reef supplements out there. Try running the tank with and without. If you don't see any difference don't waste your money on it. If you see an improvement with it, keep using it. If you see an improvement without it don't use it.
 
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