filtration???

[abrahamavelar]

well today at the lfs, i got some ferts and i was gonna get some carbon but i was told it will remove the ferts from the water column, so i didnt get them.

my current filter is a canister fluval 404 and it has 4 baskets which are divided in 2 each and sponge space. so in the first 2 baskets i got ceramic rings and scrobbing pads to get watever waste gets there.

i was wondering if i could add some more ceramic rings or bio balls or any of the other biomedia??? or is it too much and could be bad??????

 

[Fishguy2727]

No bioballs in a canister, they are designed for and only efficient in wet/dry applications.

Why the pot scrubbers?

In a Fluval I would do: bottom tray: Fluval polishing pads or filter floss crammed in very tightly. All other trays: biomedia. I suggest Seachem Matrix because it has more bioavailable surface area than Fluval's Biomax.

 

[abrahamavelar]

well i was looking for something that will get any junk from getting on the ceramic rings and i happen to have a box of brand new scrubbers (just the green part) and i was gonna change them a few days later but never did so i kept them.

ohhhhh so it pretty much doesnt matter if i add more biomedia???

 

[aqua_chem]

When you say bioballs, do you mean the little plastics things or the ceramic ones that look like kicks or w/e the cereal was called?

That carbon thing was a typical lfs load of bull. The only removal of nutrients that will happen is from your hungry plants.

 

[aqua_chem]

Also, aren't the rings supposed to be a coarse filtration, not biomedia?

 

[Fishguy2727]

Fluval makes a (useless) prefilter ceramic ring (hexagon). It is pointless though because by the time water would get to it it will have already gone the the foam which is finer.

Biomax is a porous cermic biomedia that is noodle shaped (round, long, hollow tube center).

Carbon does remove many vital nutrients that are beneficial in a planted (or reef) tank. Typical LFS 'bull' would be telling you that is not the case so you keep buying carbon. Not all tanks are so well balanced that those micronutrients and trace elements are the limiting factor, which are the only tanks you will see the negative effects of carbon in. In most tanks there are other larger issues that are holding things back and therefore masking the effects of carbon.

 

[abrahamavelar]

When you say bioballs, do you mean the little plastics things or the ceramic ones that look like kicks or w/e the cereal was called?

That carbon thing was a typical lfs load of bull. The only removal of nutrients that will happen is from your hungry plants.

the plastic ones, ohhh so then the carbon wont remove the liquid ferts???

Also, aren't the rings supposed to be a coarse filtration, not biomedia?

well i always been told that they were bio media

 

[Fishguy2727]

Yes, carbon will remove fertilizers. If you do enough water changes you shouldn't need carbon, carbon just masks the symptom of the real problem, the real problem being inadequate water changes.

 

[Phranque]

No bioballs in a canister, they are designed for and only efficient in wet/dry applications.

In a Fluval I would do: bottom tray: Fluval polishing pads or filter floss crammed in very tightly. All other trays: biomedia.

I've got a Fluval 404 with bottom tray fill with floss, and the top 3 trays filled with biomax. When it comes time for filter cleaning, I alternately clean 2 of the 4 coarse pads, change 1/2 to 2/3 of the floss (leave some in there, since BB resides there as well), and rinse my biomax if required..... all in pwc tank water, of course.

Later on down the road, after your filter has been running for about a year, the pores in the biomax rings will eventually become plugged up, reducing the surface area for the BB to colonize. Since the 404 trays are divided in half, you essentially have 6 "batches" of biomax to work with.... from that point on, at every filter cleaning (apprx 4 to 6 week), I will change the biomax in one of the 6 compartments and note in my tank log which one I changed, and just rotate around so there is always fresh biomax for maximum living area for my BB........

 

[abrahamavelar]

Yes, carbon will remove fertilizers. If you do enough water changes you shouldn't need carbon, carbon just masks the symptom of the real problem, the real problem being inadequate water changes.

yeah i do weekly pwc of 50% give or take and monthly filter cleaning, thanks for ur input i was just used to using carbon i was told that it needed in filters for better water quality (that was years ago probably atleast 12)

I've got a Fluval 404 with bottom tray fill with floss, and the top 3 trays filled with biomax. When it comes time for filter cleaning, I alternately clean 2 of the 4 coarse pads, change 1/2 to 2/3 of the floss (leave some in there, since BB resides there as well), and rinse my biomax if required..... all in pwc tank water, of course.

Later on down the road, after your filter has been running for about a year, the pores in the biomax rings will eventually become plugged up, reducing the surface area for the BB to colonize. Since the 404 trays are divided in half, you essentially have 6 "batches" of biomax to work with.... from that point on, at every filter cleaning (apprx 4 to 6 week), I will change the biomax in one of the 6 compartments and note in my tank log which one I changed, and just rotate around so there is always fresh biomax for maximum living area for my BB........

ohhh i didnt know about the floss i thought it was just another sponge ill look into that

 

[Phranque]

ohhh i didnt know about the floss i thought it was just another sponge ill look into that

The filter floss I get comes in a bag that looks like pillow stuffing.... Just tear off a couple of hunks and stuff them into the bottom tray. It's used as fine mechanical filtration after the water passes through the coarse pads, but is fine enough that BB will colonize there as well..... That's why old, used, nasty filter floss makes one of the best seeding materials for a new tank on it's cycle.

 

[abrahamavelar]

ohhhh ok cool thx, ive been reading that it will also make the water even clearer

 

[Phranque]

Absolutely.... the finer filtration is going to remove smaller particulates, which means clearer water.

 

[abrahamavelar]

Cool thx, this might sound dumb but it wont remove the ferts like the carbon right

 

[Phranque]

Nope.... Purely a mechanical/biological filtration, not a chemical one.

 

[aqua_chem]

Fluval makes a (useless) prefilter ceramic ring (hexagon). It is pointless though because by the time water would get to it it will have already gone the the foam which is finer.

Biomax is a porous cermic biomedia that is noodle shaped (round, long, hollow tube center).

Carbon does remove many vital nutrients that are beneficial in a planted (or reef) tank. Typical LFS 'bull' would be telling you that is not the case so you keep buying carbon. Not all tanks are so well balanced that those micronutrients and trace elements are the limiting factor, which are the only tanks you will see the negative effects of carbon in. In most tanks there are other larger issues that are holding things back and therefore masking the effects of carbon.

Wait, are we talking about filter carbon or liquid plant-friendly carbon? I assumed since we were in the planted tank section we were talking about plants, not filters like would be discussed in another section.

Either way, carbon ha NO effect on fertilizers. Carbon absorbs organic molecules, not inorganic salts like most of our fertilizers. Otherwise we could pack our filters full of carbon and lower our water hardness, as the main cause of hardness is CaCO3, another salt. It might hit Excel though...

The coarse filtration is used because large chunks of stuff (plant detritus, etc) could quickly clog a finer filtration system like a sponge, which is why it's done multistage. If you have some sort of a prefilter, however, it becomes a non-issue.

 

[abrahamavelar]

Nope.... Purely a mechanical/biological filtration, not a chemical one.

Cool I im gonna get some this week for sure!!!

 

[abrahamavelar]

Wait, are we talking about filter carbon or liquid plant-friendly carbon? I assumed since we were in the planted tank section we were talking about plants, not filters like would be discussed in another section.

Either way, carbon ha NO effect on fertilizers. Carbon absorbs organic molecules, not inorganic salts like most of our fertilizers. Otherwise we could pack our filters full of carbon and lower our water hardness, as the main cause of hardness is CaCO3, another salt. It might hit Excel though...

The coarse filtration is used because large chunks of stuff (plant detritus, etc) could quickly clog a finer filtration system like a sponge, which is why it's done multistage. If you have some sort of a prefilter, however, it becomes a non-issue.

The reason why I put it here is that at the lfs some1 told me that I shouldnt have carbon in my filter due that it removes ferts from the water column also my question about the bio media started because ive been wanting a bio wheel filter and I talked to the employee and I was told that with the filter I have its good and I dont need another filter and the bio wheel removes ammonia and that plants absorb it and that I dont need to spend on another filter

 

[aqua_chem]

Canister filters are by far superior to any HOB filter. Rest soundly knowing you have a top-end filter.

 

[abrahamavelar]

To tell u the truth when I got my 75 gal it came wit the fluval 404 (with brand new ceramic rings anf media) an uv sterilizer (custom sealife double helix 18w) one light and a protein skimmer live sand, rocks and lots of fish food (all of it for 200) and I didnt know that canisters were good let alone fluval and ive been using it ever since