Hair Algae Problem

[ringfinger]

Time to take care of business...

Tank size/volume:
29 gallon standard

Lighting/wpg:
97.5 watts of 10/6700 and 32.5 watts actinic in a Current USA PC fixture. I figure this to be high/very high light levels.

Do you inject CO2? If so do you know the level?
I used DIY for the first few months but switched to pressurized about 2 or 3 weeks ago. I was always able to maintain about 30-40ppm without much of a problem.

What do pH, KH, PO4, NH3 and/or NO3 test kits say?
Current Tests Read(dosed yesterday):
pH - 7
KH - 9
PO4 - 1 ppm
NO3 - 10-12 ppm
NH3 - 0 ppm

Dosing? What/how much/how often?
I dose using Greg Watson dry three times a week to get the levels listed above which I would consider ideal. I also dose 10 ppm Potassium three times weekly, and Flourish twice a week according to the bottle instructions.
I had some doubts about my test kits and mixes, but have recently verified that they are all accurate.

Heavily, moderately, or lightly planted?
I would say moderately at the moment. Many species, but not really growing in thick yet.

Fish stock?
28 inches of fish including Neons, One Angel, Otocinclus, Dwarf Gourami, YoYo Loaches, and some Cherry Red Shrimp.

Tank Location (near windows - in direct sunlight)?
Bedroom with closed blinds. It's a stable location with steady temperature and low lighting levels.

How long has tank been set up?
It had been set up for about 4 months until algae problems forced me to restart using the already established filter media and substrate to avoid a cycle. It started up again just fine without a cycle and has now been set up for 3 months with the only change being to pressurized Co2, but my Co2 levels were never really a problem anyway.

The most recent outbreak occured a couple days ago when I read close to .2 ppm PO4 after testing. I dosed it back up to 1 ppm along with the necessary NO3 and K. Within one day the hair algae was out of control. This is when I suspected there was a problem with my P04 test kit, but after further testing it was found to be ok.

I back off on dosing P04 and spot algae takes over, but if I try to dose up to 1 ppm then hair algae becomes the problem. I cant win!!!

Help

 

[jcarlilesiu]

hey that looks just like my tank. I have been told several time 30 ppm of CO2 should solve the problem... my problem? im having trouble getting that high

 

[Simpte]

What is your trace schedule and dosage?

 

[ringfinger]

The only trace I use is regular Flourish, and I dose about 2 ml twice a week.

 

[czcz]

How fast does NO3 and PO4 drop according to your tests? This is of course only from my personal experience and so just a guess, but I would bet the hair algae appeared not because of P dosing, but because addressing the P limitation allowed N to bottom out. (I do not induce hair algae from P, but get it every time N bottoms out.) If you are cutting it close before dosing, I would suggest bumping up NO3 to at least 15ppm while maintaining your current PO4 levels, observing, and bumping either up again if needed, while ignoring the ratio.

What's you rested tap pH like? Are you confident about the derived CO2 level?

 

[ringfinger]

I usually have to add 5ppm N03, and about .5ppm P04 on dosing days. I guess that means I am cutting it pretty close... So maybe I should dose higher to maybe 15ppm N03 and 1ppm P04? I guess I am just hesitant because of the rapid algae growth that happened last time I touched the P04 bottle...

I just tested my tap water and came up with about 5ppm Co2. The pH looks to be about 7.5 or 7.6 and the KH was 7. So I am quite confident in my measured Co2 levels.

 

[czcz]

JMO. This is how I incorporate EI in my tanks.

5-7ppm NO3 and .5ppm PO4 before dosing is not bad. JMO and your aversion to PO4 aside, suggest you try to make sure PO4 does not drop below 1.0ppm (dose to 1.5ppm or more) while keeping an eye on nitrtates. If you are keeping NO3 low for color, I suggest you stop and just dose it up to 15-20ppm until you beat the algae, then experiment with it later. Something is wrong and I prefer to round up for dosing vs uptake when addressing algae. Do a 50% water change before starting the new dosing and weekly to make sure nothing runs away from you. Whats your current water change schedule?

If the fish show no stress, you should drop pH to 6.8 or 6.9 to get well past 30ppm CO2. Uptake should increase, and the higher N and P levels will be useful.

Suggest you try this for two weeks and see what happens. If you put any stock in lumens/sq in, this tank and my 8gal are very similar (<.5 difference not accounting for some supplemental light in my tank), and I dose it to 10ppm NO3, 3ppm PO4, >>20ppm K, .3ppm Fe, and >40ppm CO2. I believe Travis was running 384w CF when he posted his old dosing schedule, which in terms of lumens/sq in is slightly more than either of our tanks, and if you prefer to follow it, I would suggest dosing to his high ranges when addressing algae. (His dosing schedule and some experimentation helped me beat thread, BBA, and fuzz algae when running lower light.)

HTH

 

[ringfinger]

Thanks for taking the time czcz!

My current water change schedule is 50% weekly.

I have a pH controller coming soon that I will set to 6.8 to keep Co2 up. The 3ppm P04 seems like a lot for your tank, especially with 10ppm N03. Then again I have seen the amazing quality of your plants! I think I will dose 15-20ppm N03 and 1.5ppm P04 along with the Co2 increase and see what happens.

I wasn't dosing low N03 for colors, algae always seems to make me more timid on the dosing.

Thanks again.

 

[czcz]

Yeah, in my experience the ratio becomes less important with high light, especially once you play with individual nutrients for effect and specific algae control. I came to that PO4 number after leaving it alone while focussing on NO3 and K (my tap PO4 is 1-2ppm, depending on the test). After starting PO4 dosing my plant health increased while algae decreased, so I kept increasing it, and I've been running that high since June or so, minus some periods of experimentation. Still have some spot algae btw. I read Tom Barr can dose PO4 real high with no algae, so I went to 5ppm PO4 in my plant-only tank, but induced algae. I find 1.5-2.0ppm dosing a nice, effective, and safe number under high light. EI is the perfect method and philosophy for playing with individual nutrients btw, as you can flush and reset the system at any time while letting individual nutrients climb or crash.

Good luck! Look forward to updates and other's suggestions.

 

[travis simonson]

Most of my algae trouble has come from NO3 problems, a few times from PO4 problems. Just remember that most of the "affordable" NO3 test kits cannot accurately measure NO3 levels much below 15 ppm without a significant margin of error. This means that a measurement of 10 ppm could, in reality, be very close to 0 ppm or even 20 ppm. It is also possible that your test results are accurate. I probably sound like a broken record, but until I started using a LaMotte nirtrate test kit I was having all sorts of algae issues that I couldn't pinpoint and was becoming extremely frustrated. A good NO3 kit will remove any doubt as to where your NO3 levels are and reduce 50-90% of the frustration you have in combatting algae issues. It has worked for me anyway. Now if I could only get rid of the remaining 10% of my algae issues

 

[ringfinger]

At approx $1 per test I will have to wait on the LaMotte kit.

Hopefully my AP test will be accurate enough when bumped up to 15-20ppm.

Thanks again guys. You both talk about your algae "problems" but your digital cameras sure don't seem to show it. Mine is hard to ignore and even gets comments from the wife...the ultimate insult.

 

[czcz]

Heh. I'm fighting a similar algae to your second and third pics now, actually, after neglecting dosing and having N bottom out last week. Its dying back after addressing the deficiency. (To add 2 cents to Travis's post, when maintaining low NO3 my margin of error is very low, and I can only keep up with it by dosing with a scale and logging levels. I often consider a LaMotte kit.)

Attached are pics with algae from last night and an older pic of the aftermath from the mentioned PO4 experiment (different tanks). Once you get algae to nuissance levels with EI, getting rid of it is just a matter of tweaking dosing and CO2, ime.

 

[ringfinger]

I know it has only been a few days, but here is an update.

I am dosed up to 20ppm N03, 1.5-2ppm P04, and about 25-30ppm K.

Plant growth has really increased! I have had to add about .3 P04 every day to keep that figure up. Hair algae growth has been greatly reduced except for a very few sparse hairs on the new growth. I suppose this might just be a normal amount of algae that a normal tank should have.

 

[azn_fishy55]

So I am getting a bit of an hair algae problem on my blyxas and mosses so I should increase phosphate to 1.5-2.0 with my NO3 still at 10 ppm?I am having a bit of a problem with the diffusion of CO2 and I am building a new reactor soon.Maybe I'll finish the project by today,but I am only seeing this hair algae problem on my Blyxas and mosses.I dose 2 times a week KNO3,K2SO4,and KH2PO4 and sometimes MgSO4.I do a large water change on sundays and dose a capful of Excel everyday.I am 3 wpg of compact fluorescent light and this is my 30 gallon.My testing on thursday said I had 10 ppm of NO3 and 0 ppm of NH4 and NH3.Am I doing anything wrong?

 

[ringfinger]

The plan you are considering seems to work for czcz(high P04 with low N03), and the route I chose seems to be working for me. I dont think you are doing anything really wrong. It might just be that your N03 testing is inaccurate when trying to measure lower levels like Travis suggested to me. I doubled the ammount of N03 I dose and it seemed to have helped a lot. This could have everything to do with more accurate test results at higher levels.

 

[grant116]

So, I was thinking this same thing today, But mine was much less technical, mainly thinking to myself, what will eat this. It looks like I have some more testing to do, but in the mean time... Is there anything that will eat hair algae, I want to say I've been told a chinese algea eater will, but I was not sure, I am thinking of getting some amano shrimp just for the heck of it, Did not know if they would help with hair algae?

here is a pic of the lovely stuff.

 

[grant116]

Back already, Just found this and thought this first dude was nuts here with his Bleach treatment, Anyone ever heard of this.

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hair-algae.html

 

[ringfinger]

Not the chinese algae eater you always see at the LFS, but the TRUE Siamese Algae Eater is what you want. They grow semi-large and are hard to find. Amano shrimp are great, but I prefer Cherry Red Shrimp because they do just as good a job as Amanos and are easier to breed and care for. I wouldn't expect these shrimp to instantly turn your tank around however. They are only good for cleaning up small amounts, and not a major outbreak.

 

[travis simonson]

Yes, a 2 minute bath in a 5% (19:1) bleach solution will kill most common algae. It will also kill certain types of plants. Only use this method if you feel that you have reached the end of the rope. And stick to the 2 minute rule when dipping your plants. I've done this several times before with success. You'll find that many species of plants are not amenable to bleach dips though: Riccia, Rotala, and other fine-leaved species do not take to it well, but, surprisingly others do. Dip with caution

 

[ringfinger]

Good gravy....I just got my pH controller in the mail today. I went through the calibration procedure twice using the pH7 packet, distilled water, and white vinegar. Everything was consistant and seems to be working perfectly!

Now for the problem. It tells me that my tank pH is actually 7.5 giving me Co2 levels of 9ppm!