How's your experience with Eco Complete?

[Brian_Nano12g]

Hey AA community, need some help. Just want to get some feedback to those using Eco Complete, specifically the black variety, in their planted tanks? Good or bad?

I've used it in the past, like 4 years ago, and I had decent experience in both low tech and high tech. However, I've always used some root tabs on initial setup knowing that it's somewhat inert at first. But due to the high CEC (cation exchange capacity) it is my understanding that it'll become more viable to plant nutrient delivery over time.

I'm in a bit of a debate with some Instagram planted tank folks that blame it for crashing their tanks and killing off some expensive specifies of plants (ie. Sp. Buce). I'm in disbelief because I've never heard this before. Unless the EC formula has changed in recent years, my experience says otherwise. I've been in hiatus for a while, so things could have changed without me noticing. Thanks!

 

[Bert2oo1]

I've had mixed results to be honest. I think it's a good substrate however when I started up my 60g Dutch I had Eco as the substrate and was dosing full EI. The substrate absorbed a massive amount of micro nutrients and I lost a tank worth of plants twice over. They burnt away to match sticks or curled themselves into a tangled mess.

However I'm not sure I can blame the substrate for the issues as I had issues with EI even without the Eco. I'm now dosing PPS pro with a lot better results.

I also found that BBA was a big issue with Eco, it tended to grow on the substrate.

Fresh2o has been using it for years with really good results but he found that HC Cuba couldn't root properly and ended up floating once it became a thick mat [emoji106]

 

[Barliman]

I use it and like it. My dwarf chain swords grow like a weed. Like Bert2oo1, I have noticed that some sort of brushy algae tufts will grow on the substrate, which I then have to treat with hydrogen peroxide.

 

[Fresh2o]

Purchased EC in OCT 2012 because it was super cheap at the local big box store. All in all, good experience with it except for one incident (more on that later).
Pretty much grew anything I put in it. As for the HC Cuba, I had trouble planting it in small groups (would always become uprooted). I then would take a nickel to quarter size of it and tie it to a 1"X1" square of stainless steel. It took about 6 weeks to fully carpet the tank. Several months later sections of the HC Cuba began to lift up.
I fertilizer the EC on an irregular basis, maybe every 3-5 months with AquaFertz root pellets. It does trap a ton of debris.
If you are purist about jet black, this is so so. Quite a few granules of gray, red, and tan present as well.
Okay, the bad. Might not be an EC issue. A couple of the bags I purchased sat on the floor of my garage for several months over the winter/early spring. I used it in my shrimp tank setup. Even before adding ammonia for a fishless cycle, the ammonia spiked to +8 and the surfaces of the substrate and decor was covered with a whitish fluff. I would do multiple, large water changes and within 8 hours the ammonia would go from 1 to 8+ ppm. A heavy oil would coat the surface. Ended up pitching the substrate and thoroughly cleaning the tank. Restarted with fresh substrate and no issues some then.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Thanks Bert, Barliman, and Fresh! So nothing major like total meltdowns. I've never dosed EI, I've always used PPS-Pro, but that micro nutrient overload sounds logical. Glad you got that under control. Fresh, that's strange about those bags you had laying around. I wonder if a bad batch went out and those planted tanks folks on IG ran into something similar.

Here's some of their comments that left me scratching my head. I've already considered EC a safe substrate, surely not the best, but very good for the price compared to spendy stuff like aquasoil and the alike.

 

[kbuser92]

I've had it in my Amazonian tank for several months now and it seems to work okay. I've got 20 lbs in a 40, capped with aboutr 40 lbs of gravel. Overall, I'm unhappy with my substrate, I'd like to replace it with a sand of some sort, but as far as growing goes, I've had no problems. Amazon swords, ludwigia and anotrher plant (can't think of it) have been growing like weeds. Jungle Val, pygmy chain sword and dwarf sword haven't been doing very gfood though, but I've got an improper light and no CO2. I do use fertilizer, flourish & excel, also aquavitro envy. Oddly enough, I've got a couple small rosette swords that I haven't seen growth in several months, but I recently put a larger one in that's growing quite well already.

I would give a thumbs up to anyone wanting to use it, I would just prefer a different look.

 

[Bert2oo1]

To be honest Brian after using Ada aquasoil I'd never go back to anything else. The stuff is amazing ! [emoji106][emoji16]

 

[murph3400]

How did you mix the aquasoil?

 

[Barliman]

To be honest Brian after using Ada aquasoil I'd never go back to anything else. The stuff is amazing ! [emoji106][emoji16]

Does that wear out or break down after a while and need to be replaced?

 

[Bert2oo1]

Does that wear out or break down after a while and need to be replaced?

Yea eventually it turns to mud but apparently it lasts about 3 years [emoji106]

 

[Fresh2o]

The topic of EC came up on one the FB groups I'm in. Some good, some bad as depicted in the IG posts.
I know there are far better substrates out there, but I'm happy with it so far*. No, IMO/IME not the best with smaller plants (DBT, DGH, MC) and not jet black. But I'm not growing those at the moment and for the most part, the substrate is not visible. Then again, there is about 3+ years of accumulated detritus, poo, and whatever present.
* More like lazy. Would probably wait for the next big scape.

 

[fishenthusiast]

I like Eco-complete, but the one thing I don't like is how it is sometimes hard to get plants to stay in the substrate, specifically stem plants and Crypts before they have established a large root system. Otherwise, I've had no issues with crashes and general plant growth. I do have mine mixed with some black Flourite. I'm not sure if that has any large effect on anything though. My substrate has not been changed since 2012, and I don't plan on changing it anytime soon. If I could change the substrate, I'm not sure what I'd get. Maybe Brightwell? I'm not too keen on ever trying the more soil-based or soil-like substrates. I'm pretty content with the Eco since I'm not growing any demanding plants, and most of my plants are rhizome plants anyway.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

To be honest Brian after using Ada aquasoil I'd never go back to anything else. The stuff is amazing ! [emoji106][emoji16]

I'm in the same camp. It's amazing how well AS performs. I do have a bag of the Brightwell substrate I'm waiting to try. But AS is spendy and for me, budget okay for smaller tanks. That's why I have a larger tank still running EC.

Yea eventually it turns to mud but apparently it lasts about 3 years [emoji106]

I've read this too... But I do have a tank that has 4 year old AS and it's still in pelletized form, thankfully. It's a low tech tank I recycled old AS with so I'm sure the nutrients are depleted other than the detritus and whatnot.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I've had it in my Amazonian tank for several months now and it seems to work okay. I've got 20 lbs in a 40, capped with aboutr 40 lbs of gravel. Overall, I'm unhappy with my substrate, I'd like to replace it with a sand of some sort, but as far as growing goes, I've had no problems. Amazon swords, ludwigia and anotrher plant (can't think of it) have been growing like weeds. Jungle Val, pygmy chain sword and dwarf sword haven't been doing very gfood though, but I've got an improper light and no CO2. I do use fertilizer, flourish & excel, also aquavitro envy. Oddly enough, I've got a couple small rosette swords that I haven't seen growth in several months, but I recently put a larger one in that's growing quite well already.

I would give a thumbs up to anyone wanting to use it, I would just prefer a different look.

So you're only unhappy with it due to aesthetic reasons? But growth is there, which is good for those that like its appearance. Thanks for the feedback?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

The topic of EC came up on one the FB groups I'm in. Some good, some bad as depicted in the IG posts.
I know there are far better substrates out there, but I'm happy with it so far*. No, IMO/IME not the best with smaller plants (DBT, DGH, MC) and not jet black. But I'm not growing those at the moment and for the most part, the substrate is not visible. Then again, there is about 3+ years of accumulated detritus, poo, and whatever present.
* More like lazy. Would probably wait for the next big scape.

Next big scape you say? Inquiring minds would like to know!

But yeah, I think my oldest current running tank with EC is the 26g bow front I maintain at my parents' house. Gosh, it has to be like 4+ years and the plants still look good. I do recall when I used it in a high tech build, my 12g nano cube, I got the build up of detritus you mention. I noticed when I cleaned it up with the smallest tubed siphon, it's enough suction to remove all that gunk while not sucking up the substrate into the bucket. Then I'd add some Flourish Tabs and replant, I got some pretty decent growth after that. Think there comes a point in the build up of that detritus that contributes to the point of diminishing returns.. Either that, or gut the whole thing and start new with a different substrate! Haha

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I like Eco-complete, but the one thing I don't like is how it is sometimes hard to get plants to stay in the substrate, specifically stem plants and Crypts before they have established a large root system. Otherwise, I've had no issues with crashes and general plant growth. I do have mine mixed with some black Flourite. I'm not sure if that has any large effect on anything though. My substrate has not been changed since 2012, and I don't plan on changing it anytime soon. If I could change the substrate, I'm not sure what I'd get. Maybe Brightwell? I'm not too keen on ever trying the more soil-based or soil-like substrates. I'm pretty content with the Eco since I'm not growing any demanding plants, and most of my plants are rhizome plants anyway.

Cool.. Yep, I noticed it can be difficult to plant in it, but with some long fine tipped tweezers, it makes it a whole lot easier. And I agree, with the plants you're growing you're fine with that substrate. I used to mix too. Because I was cheap, or budget conscious while in college rather, I did a thicker first layer of EC and added a top layer of aquasoil or the fluval stratum, for looks and for ease of planting small stem plants like HC.. I had pretty good results I must say.

 

[kbuser92]

So you're only unhappy with it due to aesthetic reasons? But growth is there, which is good for those that like its appearance. Thanks for the feedback��

It doesn't look the best, but there are worse to my eyes. I'll be switching out to a finer grained sand. Part of it is that it's capped with a layer of gravel, I wish I hadn't done that. I do fertilize also, so I can't give all the credit to eco, but it has done well. I did notice a huge boost in growth after switching to flourish/excel. I also use aquavitro envy and propel. But even using much lower doses of ferts before, my plants did grow.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

What size tank are you using that fert dosing?

 

[kbuser92]

40 gallon. I dose flourish once a week, excel three times, envy and propel twice. This seems to work really well, I saw an explosion of growth after I built up to those levels and the propel and envy have definitely helped everything to look their best. I'll get an updated picture when I get home from work.

 

[kbuser92]

40 gallon. I dose flourish once a week, excel three times, envy and propel twice. This seems to work really well, I saw an explosion of growth after I built up to those levels and the propel and envy have definitely helped everything to look their best. I'll get an updated picture when I get home from work.

Sorry I never got around to a few pictures. Here they are, and one of my new clown llevo just for fun.