Making the Switch to Pressurized

[Glenc]

My heart goes out to you. What an awful thing to experience. Glad to hear you are on the road to recovery. Thanks for posting all this info. I was inspired by this post to get pressurized happening, which I have done. I ordered everything from Rex Grigg as well, best bang for the buck, it has shipped and should be here Mon or Tues. Thanks to you I have a heck of alot better idea what to watch out for. Thanks again.

 

[Purrbox]

Well I found the Oto yesterday, unfortunately it was dead as I suspected. It floated up out of the mass of plants while I was trimming and gave me quite a start. Although I'm sad that it's dead, I'm glad that it's finally accounted for.

Now the good news. Ever since that initial water change the remaining shrimp seem quite happy and have been out and about on the bottom of the tank as normal. After performing my normal weekly water change today, I got a confirmed count of 12 survivors. Yeah! Who knows there might even be some more suvivors hiding in the plants. In addition the green water is continuing to fade. Hopefully I'll have everything back in tip top shape in another month. Then I'll be able to start posting pics in the 10 gallon log again!

Tank pressure has been holding steady as have the respective bubble counts. Looks like getting that seal nice and snug was the last piece to my CO2 puzzle. After a few more days I'll probably start trying to fine tune the CO2 levels.

In the end I think that I'll be very glad that I made the switch, despite the heart wrenching bump in the road that I encountered. Hopefully others will continue to be encouraged by this thread to give pressurized CO2 a try rather than being discouraged by the problems that I encountered. I look forward to updates from An t-iasg, maxwell1295, and Glenc as you each make progress on your switch to pressurized CO2.

 

[maxwell1295]

Glad to hear that you are rebounding from that last episode.

I have just about everything I need to finish my pressurized system. The missing links being the needle and check valves. As soon as they arrive, I will be ready to go.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm sorry about the oto

I'm glad the shrimp are doing well again!

Thanks for sharing your experiences and bumps in the road, even though at times it was not a good experience Sometimes that's the way the hobby is, but we all know the good times are just around the corner!

My "corner", lol, will not be until Thursday - I can't get a tank until then!

 

[Glenc]

Got my stuff from Rex Grigg today. I got the needle valves on the mini manifold as my tanks are all close together. Plan on running three off one bottle. Regulator is very well built, nice clean assembly. Very happy with the product. Can't wait to hook it up, just have to get my bottle filled. Thanks for this post Purrbox. Goodbye DIY!!

 

[Purrbox]

It's nice to be able to compare the differences between having the regulator setup with the mini manifold versus the six port manifold, and having the needle valves standard versus inline. Looking forward to pics of you complete setup Glenc.

 

[rkilling1]

figure i will just add mine on to this thread, if you don't mind Purrbox. (trying to keed the same ones together)

joining the bandwagon

I want with a local regulator and with clippard valves and the same manifold that glenc has, but i also purchased a clippard Selonoid. the selonoid will pay for itself in a years time.

Prices:

Local clippard dealer:

2 needle valves, 3 port mini manifold, 1/4' to 1/8" NPT adaptor(regulator to selonoid), 10-32 plugs, and a 1/8" NPT seloniod : 51.00

Harris regulator : 69.30

10# CO2 bottle filled : 80.00
refills are 18.00 and also require a 5 year inspection.
(I asked about the seals and they just GAVE me three saying that it was a good idea to have spares. Thanks Purrbox.)

Home depot, (1) 1/8" NPT 2" extention : 1.67

total : 201.97.

the clippard supplies should be in by the end of the week.

 

[rkilling1]

Clippard parts came in today. hooray.

one thing to mention, if you plan on getting a Clippard solenoid get the Din connector and not the wired. they will both work, but the din one has the LED and looks more professional. live and learn.

I also have 4 of those minimanifolds with plugs if anyone is interested, would be great for those of you going from one pressurized tank to two or three. Just pay shipping. ( 2 to 3 bucks at most)

 

[Purrbox]

Looking good Rkilling, you're going to really like it once you finish getting it setup. Discovered another tip for everyone.

Tip #4 - When fine tuning your CO2 flow with a needle valve, use a screw driver. It's much easier to make small adjustments this way. When adjusting using your fingers the tendancy is to overshoot the bubble count and either shut of the flow nearly completely or to get a torent of bubbles.

 

[Glenc]

rkilling1, your set up looks great, as Purrbox says, you will really like it once you get it going. It is sooo much easier to work with. Wish I'd done it sooner. Thanks for the screw driver tip Purrbox, I'll give it a try.

 

[rkilling1]

finally have both of my planted tanks going on pressurized. hooray

still using regular blue airline tubing, so all is not done. I have my quote from Rex and will put the order in this week for 25' of CO2 tubing and 2 check valves and that should do it.

I have to include this pic just for Purrbox. Riteaid baby syringe and a check valve I got at petsmart. it fits like a glove.

Homemade bubble counter: (thanks Purrbox) or maybe is should put it in the DIY forum?

 

[An t-iasg]

I've joined the pressurized bandwagon too this weekend! Pictures to follow (I'm not at the right computer now.)

I'll add a few tips:

Have something like a stiff shot of whiskey to revive yourself after the pH drops from 7.8 to 6.8 in about 30 seconds! (ok - kidding about the whiskey but not kidding about the pH drop!)

I'm so glad no fish are in the tank. Even an hour later, I was still kind of shocked thinking of "what if". This is exactly why I wanted to hook this system up now, before I got fish. I started this tank in July and it has never been right, so I didn't add fish, and I'm glad I went slowly in getting the tank back on track.

We followed the instructions in opening the CO2 cylinder very briefly (before attaching the regulator) to clear the opening of any possible obstruction. Wow - that's some serious pressure in there! Papers all the way across the room blew around! I tried to set the bubble rate before attaching the diffuser on the other end of the CO2 line. This didn't work because the regulator must have been expecting some pressure from the diffuser and there was none - just the other end of the line lying on the floor. The bubble fluid got forced up the airline a little bit. I disconnected it and cut off the inch or so that got bubble fluid in it, and started again with the diffuser in place. Then so many CO2 bubbles went through the tank. It was more turbulent than the filter ever was. The pH dropped from 7.8 to 6.8 (where I set it) in a matter of 30 or so seconds.

When I change cylinders, I'm going to do this beginning procedure with the regulator and bubble counter with the diffuser in a bucket of water and not in the tank, to make sure everything is set before unleashing it in the aquarium.

Also, the diffuser I'm using temporarily has a check valve in it. I did speak to the local Clippard dealer to get a brass check valve. Since the solonoid is controlled by the pH meter, tank water does rise up in the airline when the solonoid is off. I noticed this before I put the diffuser with the check valve on, but I'd still rather have a brass check valve. Hopefully I'll hear from the Clippard dealer on Monday.

 

[Purrbox]

Looks and sounds great guys.

Rkilling, that bubble counter looks real similar to mine. I think we used the same brand of medicine shringe.

An t-iasg, even with that quick of a pH shift any fish probably would have been okay. After all pH swings due to CO2 are not harmful to fish, just pH swings with an associated swing in KH. The only way they might have had problems was if they took a little while to adjust to the sudden increase in CO2.

 

[An t-iasg]

I didn't check the KH before I started. If I had fish I most definitely would have! I'll do that tonight and start my KH/pH log. I know you're right (it's not the pH necessarily but the KH that's the key) but wow, I wouldn't want any fish to go through that kind of pH change.

So here are the pictures! I think my cylinder is rather attractive!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I'd also like to comment on the pressurized setups. Watch your secondary pressure guage. The higher it is, the more CO2 you are going to have in each bubble. I learned this the hard way. I had mine set at about 20psi, maybe a little higher, and my 10lb bottle lasted not even 2 months at 1-2 bubbles per second. If injecting into a system where you have to go against pressure, like an inline reactor or a power reactor, have your guage at just above 10psi. If you are injecting into the intake of a powerhead, where there's no real pressure being injected into, or even going to an airstone like I am now, have it set at less than 10psi, more like 7-8psi.

 

[rkilling1]

Requardless of the regulator setting, you would still have to overcome the system pressure to inject the CO2. If it took, lets say 5 lb's to overcome system pressure, then no matter what the regulator was set at, wether it be 10 lb's or 50 lb's, your needle valve is the one that is overcoming this system pressure and then adding whatever pressure you desire. IE if it takes 1 lb over system pressure to obtain a 1BPS feed rate then no matter what the regulater is set at, the needle valve will always have to be set at 6 lbs.

BUT...

Having the regulator set at a higher setting does do a couple of things for you.
one, It makes the needle valve adjustments almost impossible to make. IE one small change is a huge change in pressure.

two, you have a greater chance of a leak between the regulater and the needle valve.

three, if you run a solenoid the d/p across the valve is greater. how will that effect the valve life? don't know.

 

[rkilling1]

Just thought I would give you the links/parts I used to make my rig. I used the parts that Rex uses to build his rigs. Figured people may want to know where to get them, because they may be more Familiar with him and the parts he uses can be obtained locally all over the US. Just a thought.

All Clippard parts, ( http://www.clippard.com )

Needle valve: (MNV-4K2) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MNV-4K2

1/4 NPT (regulator out) to 1/8 NPT(Extention to solenoid) reducer: (4CQN-BLK) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=4CQN-BLK

1-port manifold: (2CPF-BLK) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=2CPF-BLK

3-port manifold: (15090-3) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=15090-3-BLK (pictured here: http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=15090-3-PKG )

12-port manifold: (MAN-12) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MAN-12

Plugs for the manifolds: (11755-PKG) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=11755-PKG

2-way solenoid valve: (MME-2PDS-D110) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MME-2PDS-D110

Check valve parts,

Check valve: (MCV-1BB) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MCV-1BB

10-32 to Airline tubing fitting: (11752-4-BLK. get 2) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=11752-4-BLK

50 FT of CO2 hose: ( URH1-0804-BKS-050) http://www.clippard.com/store/byo_tubing/?sku=URH1-0804-BKS-050

If you want an in-line needle valve, combine Needle valve (MNV-4K2) with 10-32 to Airline tubing fitting (11752-4-BLK) and a 10-32 female hex coupling: (15004-BLK) http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=15004-BLK

besides those parts, the only other things I needed were, of coarse the regulator and besides that, a 1/8 NPT extention that I got from home depot and an electric cord for the solenoid valve. I think this list of parts will help those who have seen rex's site and would want to build a setup just like his (just like I did), but will save them all the hassle and time spent researching the part numbers and the clippard dealers time, LOL. Randy.

 

[Purrbox]

Just a little update. When I checked on my tanks this morning I noticed that the CO2 drop checker in my 10 gallon was registering yellow. I'd been having some problems with my spraybar, so I checked the pump and found the prefilter floss was nicely clogged and gave it an early cleaning. Just happened to glance at the CO2 regulator and found that the pressure had dropped to 500psi. Several quick thoughts ran threw my head.

Uh oh, need to get that refilled.
Don't want it to run empty and risk a CO2 dump killing my shrimp again.
<insert appropriate explitive here> It's Saturday, where am I going to get it refilled?
I might have to decide between risking the shrimp and running without CO2 for a couple days.

I did some calling around and found out that there actually was ONE place that's open Saturday morning in town. Happened to be the place that I got a quote of $20 on refills, but I didn't care since it meant I could get the cylindar refilled today. Quick disconnected the tank and drove over to the shop. I got two very pleasant surprises. They fit all of their cylindars with a rubber O-ring so you don't have to use those plastic gaskets AND the refill was only $15 bringing it inline with the other shops in town. Well let's just say that with them being open on Saturday, having the rubber O-rings, and being the same price as everyone else they've got a new customer.

Looks like a 5lbs cylindar plumbed for three small tanks is going to average a touch over 6 months for me. Not as good as I'd hoped, but not too shabby either.

Time to see if it passed the leak check and get that CO2 flowing!

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

@ 500PSI you probably still had 4 or 5 days, maybe more before it bombed. My 10lb was losing about 25PSI/day when it started to drop (running on a 120Gal)

 

[Purrbox]

Good to know.

I really didn't have any frame of reference since the first time it went empty in two days as a result of leaking. As a result I felt better playing it safe than waiting and seeing.