Salt and Plants?? Bad idea?

[fishrancher]

So I have been running about 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons in my planted 29g tank -- recommended after a bout with ich. I know that the "preventative" use of salt is a bit controversial, but aside from whether it is a good idea/necessary/helpful for my fish, my question here is this: IS THE SALT KILLING MY PLANTS? I have been getting consistently diminishing performance (and eventually death) from my plants, even with regular bulb changes and fert dosing. And it (finally) dawned on me that it might just be the salt. Thoughts?

If anybody has been successful with a low tech tank and "preventative" salt treatment, I'd be interested in hearing about that.

TIA!

 

[aqua_chem]

Define "Plants" for us. Some species tolerate it better than others

 

[fishrancher]

I've had the following which diminished and then died over an extended period of time (maybe two years) -- jungle val (died), spiral val (died), rotala indica (required monthly trimming, then died), wendtii green (spread considerable, then wilted, perhaps dead), lutea (okay, but not thriving as it once was), amazon sword (each leaf is smaller than the previous until they die), anubias (grows fine, but slowly as would be expected). It's not like it was always like that -- initially the rotala, wendtii and lutea did really well. I've never had luck with swords.

Also, I keep the tank at 78 degrees -- but I think that has always been true.

 

[BillD]

Stop using salt. You don't need it.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Agreed, don't use it. I've actually seen (keep in mind I've never experienced this, nor read any actual scientific data) people say that ich can become resistent to salt if used regularly.

As for plants, IME, half the dosage recommended on the carton, when used to treat ich (~2 weeks), had no negative effects on my plants.

 

[DragonFish71]

Not to hijack this thread but...

I wonder if it's the difference between regular aquarium salt and reef salt? Maybe the reef salt has more nutrients the plants need.

I have a BW aquarium and my plants do excellent with the higher salinity. I have the standards: java moss/fern, anubias, jungle val, crypts and ludwigia repens (which is not supposed to be tolerant of salt).

But, I do agree that salt for a FW tank is not a necessity.

 

[fishrancher]

Not to hijack this thread but...
I wonder if it's the difference between regular aquarium salt and reef salt?
I have a BW aquarium and my plants do excellent with the higher salinity. I have the standards: java moss/fern, anubias, jungle val, crypts and ludwigia repens (which is not supposed to be tolerant of salt).

Not a hijack at all. Very interesting. Your ability to grow the same plants in BW at the very least suggests it's not "just the salt." Thanks for the info. I'm of course still hoping to find someone that has long term success with salt and plants in FW. I know, I know, but after a pretty rough first year, I've been over 2 years without disease in the tank (knock on driftwood). Coincidence, likely; difficult to stop, definitely.

 

[BBradbury]

Salt and Plants

Good morning fish...

High doses of standard aquarium salt will harm your plants. I use much smaller amounts of aquarium salt in my large, planted tanks and have never had a disease in any of my tanks. I started in the hobby about six years ago.

A teaspoon of aquarium salt in every five gallons of your water change water is good for the general health of your fish and aquatic plants are fine with a trace in the water. Most fish pathogens can't tolerate even a trace of salt in the water, another benefit of regular use.

I change out half the tank water every week in my tanks and my plants and fish are thriving. May have to send some pics out one of these days.

B

 

[BillD]

Clean water helps prevent disease, more than adding salt. I have gone almost 20 years now without a case of ich, and I don't use salt, or keep my tanks warm, in many cases. none of my livebearer tanks are heated. Saying that a little salt is good for fish health, because you have heard it somewhere, doesn't make it so. Freshwater fish evolved to live in salt free water. It is s stretch to think that adding salt is good for them.

 

[HN1]

Good morning fish...

High doses of standard aquarium salt will harm your plants. I use much smaller amounts of aquarium salt in my large, planted tanks and have never had a disease in any of my tanks. I started in the hobby about six years ago.

A teaspoon of aquarium salt in every five gallons of your water change water is good for the general health of your fish and aquatic plants are fine with a trace in the water. Most fish pathogens can't tolerate even a trace of salt in the water, another benefit of regular use.

I change out half the tank water every week in my tanks and my plants and fish are thriving. May have to send some pics out one of these days.

B

No offense, but that is complete nonsense. Show me some data. The only tanks that should have any salt (and aquarium salt doesn't count) are brackish / marine tanks, tanks under a heat/salt ich treatment, and as an emergency time buyer in a high nitrite situation. JMO, but it has worked with 80 tanks and hundreds of species of FW fish, inverts and plants.

 

[abrahamavelar]

I would use ich attack by kordon ira herbal n safe 4 everything

 

[BBradbury]

Use of Aquarium Salt

Hello HN and to Bill D too...

No offense taken at all. Actually, the discussion of using aquarium salt in tanks is one of my favorites. My reasons for using it are many, but at the top of the list is the recommendation from a old guy I talked to when I was getting into keeping "livebearers". He'd been "water keeping" as he called it, since the 1960s. He said "If a little aquarium salt isn't in the tank, get it in there." I have not doubt, the combination of changing half the tank water weekly (a fairly recent practice) and using a little aquarium salt in the change water has been the reason for my success in the hobby.

B

 

[HN1]

All I know is my experiences and those of others I know. We have never used AS and will never will. Marine salt has uses. NOT ONE of the many top quality breeders that we deal with use AS either. Nor any of the world class speakers that I've been fortunate enough to hear and speak with at our local club, ACA, AGA, etc.

The statement you made was simply too broad even if you choose to advocate AS use for livebearers. AS is simply a profit leader and its use is perpetuated by myth rather than facts. JMHO

 

[aqua_chem]

An organism living in an environment is constantly trying to maintain homeostasis: bloodstream TDS, temperature, oxygen content, etc. This includes humans, who hyperventilate or sweat to control oxygen content and temperature, respectively, and have developed special adaptations in their skin/mucous membranes to avoid water loss. Fish have analogous processes for oxygen content (gasping near the surface), and I would imagine temperature. They do, however, have a much more complicated process for maintaining their body's TDS levels, as their entire body can exchange solutes with their environment. A FW fish rapidly put into saltwater might persist for a while, but would eventually be desalinated and die. The same holds true for SW fish in FW, except with dehydration. IMO, brackish fish fair better in FW for awhile, but generally is ultimately unhealthy (poor, poor, misunderstood Bumblebee gobies). This holds true for plants as well.

What does this mean for us? Salting the water changes the natural environment for many fish that they have evolved to live in, causing them to work harder to maintain homeostasis. One of the justifications I've heard for salting was to encourage a healthy slime layer. Guess what the slime layer is doing? It's a stress response to help minimize salt exchange.

Now (getting back to the OP) what does this mean for plants? If you're plants are flourishing and can spare the energy, sure, they should do ok for awhile. But if they're already not in great shape, the extra energy expenditure might push them over the edge.

I stand by potassium deficiency. Look it up and see if it applies.

*end science babble

 

[fishrancher]

Thanks everyone for the insight, opinions and science. Clearly, no one was supportive of the level of salt I was using -- for plants or fish.

On the update front, I did a 40% PWC today without adding salt -- and I'm planning to dramatically reduce (and possibly eliminate) the salt levels. Aqua_Chem may be on to something with the potassium deficiency, or maybe iron. The symptoms all seem right on for potassium, except possibly the "starting with pinholes" but I cut and tossed all of the affected leaves last week (of course) without adequate observation -- it turns out.

So I have reduced the salt, about two weeks ago started consistent dosing of FlorinMulti (contains, among many others, Potassium and Iron) and last week added root tabs and a few new plants. I'll try to update in a month or so to let y'all know if things turn around.

Again, thanks to all for your help with this -- my dwindling plants have been a real frustration. So...