I have wigglers!!!

[RRP1501]

My Angel pair have laid eggs for the second time and there at the wigglers stage now!!! How long do they stay that way? They've been wiggling over 24 hrs now. I'm guessing some time tomorrow? When should I feed them? I have a batch of Baby brine shrimp that will be ready tomorrow and I have decapsulated b.s. eggs also. I have flake food for fry waiting. Any help would be appreciated! I am pretty excited!!!


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[RRP1501]

Here's a pic of them! A lot of white ones but just as many wiggling! Hard to see them on the brown stone.


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[ReefBoy]

Following along. Great job so far!

 

[RRP1501]

Well, woke up this morning and was shocked! Couldn't find the wigglers anywhere! Figured the two ate them again. Saw a lot of dead eggs on the tank bottom, so I went to vacuum them up when the Momma attacked the vacuum every time I got close to the plant in the tank. Then I remembered that someone posted in here about that the parents might move them once they were wiggling. Upon closer examination, the parents had moved them all to a leaf on the sword plant I have in there! WHEW! There still going strong, hope to see them free swimming soon!


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[Andy Sager]

Anglefish fry will be in the "wiggler" stage for anywhere from 3-7 days. ( The discrepancy is based on temperature and the fish themselves. I have some that go at 5, some 7 and in the old days, 3
There no need to hatch the brine shrimp just yet. I usually wait for the fry to start free swimming then hatch the shrimp. You want the shrimp to be as close to newly hatched as possible so you might want to use this current batch you mentioned as a test to see exactly how long it takes for your eggs to hatch. ( Different brands hatch at different times.)
There is an old thread in this breeding forum titled " Wigglers at last!!!" which was an ongoing discussion by both professional and hobbyist Angelfish breeders. Pretty much everything you need to know about breeding and raising these fish was discussed on that thread. You might want to find it and read it. ( It includes the "Where's the babies" game that Angels like to play too. )
Hope this helps

 

[RRP1501]

Thanks Andy! I put a Penguin 100 HOB filter on the tank with a nylon vacuum bag on the intake so the fry, whenever they decide to start swimming, don't get sucked up. The filter has a rating of 100 gph on it. I like the HOB filters myself, but if it gives the fry any problems, I'll take it out. I can already see at least 2 more tanks in my future! The brine shrimp haven't hatched yet, so that's good it's a race now to see who arrives first. If the bbs come to early, at least the fish in my community tank will like them! Started reading the "Wigglers At Last" thread. There is a wealth of info in there! I'm glad I found this site! Will help take the edge off the nerves of first time hatchlings! ???


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[Andy Sager]

Thanks Andy! I put a Penguin 100 HOB filter on the tank with a nylon vacuum bag on the intake so the fry, whenever they decide to start swimming, don't get sucked up. The filter has a rating of 100 gph on it. I like the HOB filters myself, but if it gives the fry any problems, I'll take it out. I can already see at least 2 more tanks in my future! The brine shrimp haven't hatched yet, so that's good it's a race now to see who arrives first. If the bbs come to early, at least the fish in my community tank will like them! Started reading the "Wigglers At Last" thread. There is a wealth of info in there! I'm glad I found this site! Will help take the edge off the nerves of first time hatchlings! ???


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When it comes to breeding fish, sponge filter s are the way to go. HOBs have this issue, even if you put a sock over the intake to slow the water flow, it can still suck the babies into the sock and if you slow the water flow too much so that it doesn't, you can kill the tank due to lack of oxygen. I was told by a HOB rep, years ago, that slowing the intake just speeds up the decline of the filter. It needs the water flow to keep the motors from getting to hot. Shaft compartments can warp as well. HOBs are fine for community tanks but for tanks with fry, they are a risk and can be expensive to run.
Just an FYI

 

[RRP1501]

Okay, sounds good to me. I believe you have way more experience with this than me!as you can see they moved the Wigglers on top of the sponge filter!


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[Andy Sager]

And don't be surprised if they aren't there tomorrow. LOL That's Angels for ya.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Andys 100% correct, but i might add that In cases of uh oh, ive slid that exact long tubular sponge, in your pic, off its carriage and on to the HOB's intake tube.

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[RRP1501]

Well, my Wigglers are trying to go for a swim, but every time one does, Mom and Dad pick them up and spit them back on the filter! I tried to move them off the filter to another part of the tank, but same result. There must of been close to 100 swimming for about 1 minute. There all back on the filter. I don't know if they can break free from the filter suction. Should I just sit and wait or try to move them again. I'm afraid the parents may start eating them if I do!


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[Andy Sager]

There's no need for you to interfere. If the parents put them on the filter, they want them there on the filter. This is why I use sponge filters. The fry don't get hurt. If you see the fry starting to swim off and get sucked back towards the filter, just lower the air flow and it reduces the suction. ( FYI: You really need to have that airflow CRANKING!!!! in order to suck back a fish fry.) When they are strong enough to swim, the parents can't stop them. They will appear to be in a cloud of fry and just stay close to their parents.
So best thing is to let them just be. Yes, the parents might eat the fry. That's the chance you take when parent rearing. Eventually, usually, they stop doing that and just go about their business. Egg eating parents don't always stop so again, you take your chances by not hatching the eggs out yourself.

Hope this helps.

 

[RRP1501]

Thanks Andy. Every once in awhile a fry starts swimming away, but Dad keeps putting them back. I figure soon enough they won't be able to keep up with them! Those Little fry are really fun to watch. It's better than most TV shows! I'll let you know how it goes.


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[RRP1501]

That's Momma there!


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[RRP1501]

Well, they are free swimming and munching on some first bites !!! There has to be about 100 of them!


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[Andy Sager]

Despite what the package says, First Bites is not the preferred first food by most Angelfish fry. The way to tell for sure if they are eating it is to look at the fry's belly. If is the color of the first bites, then they are in fact eating it. One of the indirect side effects of feeding newly hatched Brine Shrimp is that you can see the orange shrimp inside the fry. If they aren't eating the dry food, hopefully there is enough microfoods on your plants to keep the fry going until you can hatch out some brine shrimp.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Niiiicely done

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[RRP1501]

Thanks Andy. They've been hanging around on the bottom of the tank, so it's hard to tell, but I believe they ate some if the first bites. I'm gonna give them some brine shrimp a little later. I have a few hatcheries going so I should have fresh bbs every other day. Looks like the adults have eaten some of the fry, but going strong! Thanks Pappa!


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[RRP1501]

Andy, over time I've lost almost all the fry. There are maybe 5 or 6 left. I don't think Mom and Dad have eaten many of them but I am having problems with Ammonia. I vacuum several times a day do at least 2 water changes and am feeding the fry 4 or 5 times a day. Would it be possible to take them out into a separate aquarium. I'm setting up a 15 gallon for when the get bigger, but I'm thinking of moving them after they are free swimming. Is that okay?


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[Andy Sager]

Andy, over time I've lost almost all the fry. There are maybe 5 or 6 left. I don't think Mom and Dad have eaten many of them but I am having problems with Ammonia. I vacuum several times a day do at least 2 water changes and am feeding the fry 4 or 5 times a day. Would it be possible to take them out into a separate aquarium. I'm setting up a 15 gallon for when the get bigger, but I'm thinking of moving them after they are free swimming. Is that okay?


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If you are having an ammonia issue you are either over feeding the fish or your sponge filter wasn't cycled. If your filter was cycled, reduce the amount of food per feeding and reduce the feeding to 2-3 times per day for now. Use some PRIME to make the ammonia less toxic but keep up with the water changes.
As for moving the fry, moving the eggs is actually MUCH, MUCH easier than moving the fry so I suggest, if you are going to move them once free swimming anyway, hatch them out in the other tank or another container and release them into the 15 once free swimming. Prepare(cycle) a sponge filter in another tank and start using it as soon as you put the fry in the tank. This way, there will already be an established filter to help control the ammonia created by the feedings.

Hope this helps