Overstocking a 55g tank

[JAnders]

Hello -

I've done so many google searches on this subject that I think I'm just as confused now as I was when I began! So, I thought I'd post another thread on the subject and get everyone's take here!

It seems that everyone has a differing opinion on how many African Cichlids you can put in a 55g. I've read anywhere from 4 to 24 (I think I saw 40 once, too!) but what number do you think is ideal? I know there is no absolute answer so I am just looking for some general opinions using basic parameters:

• 55g
• Limiting to the species that grow to ~6" or less
• up to 3 filters (Penguin 200, Aquaclear 70, Aquaclear 110)
• Sand substrate
• LOTS of rock caves and plants for cover
• Commitment to do regular water changes and monitoring levels
• Careful to not overfeed and to feed a good diet

And as a follow-up question(s), I've also read that you shouldn't keep mbuna and peacocks together, but would overstocking lessen the aggression, assuming you only had a small amount of mbuna, say 2 or 3? And what would you call "acceptable aggression"? The occasional chasing away from a territory? A fin nip or two? And what do you see in behavior when the aggression is too much and it's time for a fishy time-out or to re-home altogether?

Thanks!

 

[Ulrichsd]

Ok, I am by no means an expert, but I have had my mbuna aquarium for almost a year. I'm guilty of keeping 40 mbuna in a 60g, but to be fair, half are dwarf mbuna (demasoni). I bought them with the intention of removing some of the males, but so far haven't had any aggression issues but they aren't at sexual maturity either so I may have to trim some of the males eventually.

I think quantity will depend on tank maintenance. I do 50% water changes weekly and if nitrates ever get up to 20 ppm I'll do a second water change after a couple days to get down to 5ppm. I do vacuuming and good filtration so it seems to work for me. There's just not a lot of room for error, can't miss a water change.

I think a good start would be three species, maybe 5 each species.

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[icydeath]

I think it is too much when they grab a fin or body part (somehow) and latch on. Nipping is okay as there are ways to alleviate it such as reworking the tank; as long as the victim fish isn't too stressed.

I haven't ever kept Africans so I can't say much about stocking but I think 8-12 would be a good number assuming you have good rockwork and the like.

 

[joecoones]

I started with mbuna and decided to go the hap peacock route and had to trim out a lot of mbuna, the only acceptable mbuna I have left in my overstocked young adult/juvenile hap tank is a sexually mature male rusty and a mature labidochromis chisumulae. I had a male adult trewevasae(sp?) who didn't hurt my peacocks but kept them colored down. Took him out this weekend and everyone is happier. Much more relaxed swimming and mingling and everyone showing nice colors.

So, imo and limited experience, I would only keep iodos and labidos with peacocks and just trade them out if you notice them dominating your peacocks and they aren't coloring nicely.

I'd keep as many as you want as long as aggression and filtration are kept in control. 15-30. You can even go with peacocks and haps bigger than 6" in a 55, some are slow growing.

 

[JAnders]

Thanks for the answers.

Right now the mix seems to be working. Key is "right now"!

I have 17, mostly peacocks (started out not knowing, followed by bad advice).

I know this can change quickly which is why I'm researching, asking questions, and keeping a close eye on things. I don't want a death tank from hell and ready to remix.

That is why I was wondering - if I overload with peacocks ((or peaceful mbuna) will that overwhelm the other mbuna, and should I add more, remove some, etc. or is that just failed logic and/or wishful thinking?

I have two that concern me: 1 demansoni (was told 1 would be ok as long as nothing else looked like him) and 1 male hongi who likes to call the very center of the tank his own. They chase but haven't seen war or a fight. And everyone eats. Like crazy.

Also have a female hongi who, as of this morning's dance, may be carrying. She never chases.

I have recently rearranged (to tell the truth, part of the motivation was selfish - I wanted a new look). If things heat up I am ready to move a bully to a time out tank or remove altogether to keep things in balance.


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[Andrew McFadden]

So what fish do you have? Peacocks shouldn't be mixed with Mbuna. Although it may work they live stressful lives being in a tank full of Mbuna especially in a 4' tank. I think your numbers are fine at 17

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[JAnders]

So what fish do you have? Peacocks shouldn't be mixed with Mbuna. Although it may work they live stressful lives being in a tank full of Mbuna especially in a 4' tank. I think your numbers are fine at 17

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What about a tank with very few Mbuna? I'll only have 3 out of 17. I know it may be splitting hairs.

 

[Andrew McFadden]

It all depends on who they are. But 14 Peacocks in a 55 is way to many. 6 would probably be the number I would have aimed for. Peacocks don't need to be crowded like Mbuna do, it will only make it to where only a few would color up all the way

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[TMRC Exotics]

17 will be a little much once they all mature. Maybe you could cut down to the 10-12 range safely. Its my understanding that demasoni are holy terrors. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I wouldn't think they would mix at all with peacocks if they are as aggressive as I remember. No experience with the hongi but a lot of cichlids display aggression when in a male/female pair. Not saying it will be the case as I'm unfamiliar with them but its a trait of many cichlids. In general peacocks do best on their own. I made the same exact mistake of mixing them as well.

Good luck with the tank! Sounds like your getting on the right track.

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[JAnders]

I have the demansoni in "jail" now and will try and take him back to the Lfs tomorrow. Amazing how calm the tank is now.

Just waiting for the next one to try and assert dominance!

Will keep on working on finding the right balance. Years ago we had a 10 gallon and like most people - buy fish, throw 'em in, and wonder why they die. Put tank in basement.

This had been a real learning experience and so much more enjoyable as I learn more about fish keeping. Having a "harmonized" tank is much better for me...and them!


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[TMRC Exotics]

Yeah its truly awesome when the tank is harmonized to the point you start seeing the fish's natural behavior. Its very rewarding.

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[Ulrichsd]

I was a little worried, but my demasoni really aren't bad, aggression is minor and conspecific. I think the key must be to have a bunch, I've read minimum of 12. The ruler of my tank is actually the alpha yellow lab.

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[JAnders]

I was a little worried, but my demasoni really aren't bad, aggression is minor and conspecific. I think the key must be to have a bunch, I've read minimum of 12. The ruler of my tank is actually the alpha yellow lab.

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I had heard having one shouldn't be too bad but...!

I may try him in the tank again after a few days of "time out" and see if that doesn't take him down a notch. If not then it's off to the LFS!


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[SirReaL303]

^^one of my African tanks... U can go pretty heavy.

 

[Mogurako]

^^one of my African tanks... U can go pretty heavy.

This is the perfect example of what not to do. That looks like a 75 and its jam packed with fish that get very aggressive and hit 8-10" +. Even the smallest of Haps shouldn't be in anything less than a 6' tank long term.

Like stated before only Mbuna need to be stocked heavier to avoid aggression. Peacocks and Haps however are the exact opposite. Also the tank set ups for haps, Mbuna and peacocks are typically different.




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[mikem691]

This is the perfect example of what not to do. That looks like a 75 and its jam packed with fish that get very aggressive and hit 8-10" +. Even the smallest of Haps shouldn't be in anything less than a 6' tank long term.

Like stated before only Mbuna need to be stocked heavier to avoid aggression. Peacocks and Haps however are the exact opposite. Also the tank set ups for haps, Mbuna and peacocks are typically different.




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Not only this but looks like there is 2 frontosa's in the tank.

 

[TMRC Exotics]

No way that 75 gallon is staying at healthy ammonia/trite/trate levels either without some serious water changes.

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[SirReaL303]

Whoa.

This tanks been active for 2 years, probably over 2 years. I've never had issues with aggression really aside from same species fish that were mainly tretacephalus and a couple calvus, even mixing malawi, victoria, and tanganyika. I've never had an ammonia/nitrite spike in the existence of the tank. It's filtered with Aquatop Canister filters. 25% every week, that's it. You can go months back to the last vid and see 0 fish loss, 0 problems, 0 disease. Matter of fact, here's a video from December 20th 2014 that shows the same identical fish population minus the female yellow lab I mentioned removing due to her not producing for me.

You can most DEFINITELY get away with haps and peacocks in a tank this size @ 4ft as long as you don't intend on keeping them in the tank into adulthood. And on that note, you can most DEFINITELY keep a few full grown haps and peacocks in a 75g for life with no problem, even mated pairs (as I have 3 seperate producing mated pairs in that tank with fry proof in the 25g videos). And also with multiple fronts, I've got a 3rd one in another tank also that will join them in the future. As a grow out, 75g will do u just great for haps/peacocks/tangs/mbuna. The 2 big male venustus, pheno, and front's are well on their way at around 5.5-6 inches a piece, most all the other fish at at least 3.5-4.5 inches. Which mainly all started as 2" fish minus a few I bought with a little more size later on in the tank.

You can try to say it doesn't work, but it's worked for me for years.

 

[SirReaL303]

Btw, MikeM u have a jag in a 55g, and a Midas in a 55g, and you're trying to tell me something about having 2 fronts in a 75? You're kidding right?

 

[Dallascowboys16]

Jaguar: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+889+918&pcatid=918

Midas: Amphilophus citrinellus (Midas Cichlid) — Seriously Fish

He's actually fine, you on the other hand are ludicrously overstocked.