5 gallon planted

[KatieJ]

Jetajockey, would you be so kind as to send me a tiny bit? I'd appreciate it so, so much!

I'm currently manually removing them with my net. >.< I'm worried some are actually too small for my superfine net, so I'm wondering if I'll just have to remove them via siphoning. I've been at this for at least two hours, but I'll have to stop soon so the shrimp (and I!) can go to bed.

 

[jetajockey]

Sure, I'll have some on the way tomorrow. In the off chance that there are any issues with the shrimp because of the treatment, let me know and we'll fix that also, but I think they'll be fine. Just something to help relieve some concern on your end anyway.

 

[KatieJ]

Okay - gosh, thanks so much! The little guys are still doing well - and they're growing so fast!

 

[Coursair]

I did not lose ANY Shrimp or Snails or Fish using Fenbendazole. I don't have Apple Snails, but I do have MTS. I had newly hatched Shrimplets at the time and they were fine also.

 

[KatieJ]

Ugh. DX I woke up this morning, turned the tank lights on, and saw that most of my shrimp were dead. I scooped out three ghost shrimp and two red cherries; the survivors of whatever happened are currently hiding. I can only count one or two RCS left and three ghost shrimp; the others are either MIA or dead in the substrate somewhere. I can't find them at all. I swear I had 7 or 8 cherries left when I counted them last night.

Edit: Nevermind. Found the rest of the cherries. They were hiding behind the filter, up at the surface. There's at least four left.

Out of the ghost shrimp, I'm not terribly surprised that they started dropping like flies over the week, since they were sold as feeder shrimp. Out of the 8 I bought, only one or two has survived to this day. The RCS are what I'm concerned about; they were a very healthy, colorful and active batch, so I'm more concerned over why they died than anything. But the sheer number of them (RCS and ghosts together) that died at once is what gets me.

The shrimp that are left seem to be pretty freaked out - they're swimming in the water coloumn; is this normal? They're staying close to the surface... I wonder if this could be from the CO2.

What could have happened? DX I recently set up some DiY CO2 with a check valve in-between the bubble counter and the yeast bottle, but there's no check valve in-between the aquarium and the bubble counter. Could gunk possibly have gotten into the tank? The water does look a smidgen bit cloudier than usual - I'm attributing that to the partially decomposed bodies or something else.

I have to go to class, so I'll check my levels when I get back then. Should I also do a pwc, or would that stress out the shrimp that are left? I feel really disappointed, confused and ashamed, like I should have known this was coming and how to fix it. Kind of a "I fail as an aquarist" feeling.

Edit: Got a little spark of hope today - the single egg that was in one of the pregnant ghost females hatched last night! It's soooo tiny. ;w; It's hanging out upside down on the surface... which brings me to my previous thought that there might not be enough oxygen in the tank. I took the tank lid off to allow for some aeration while I'm in class.

 

[jetajockey]

do you have any way to measure co2 level?
it would be very easy to overdo it in a tank that size.

 

[KatieJ]

Hokay, back from class. For measuring the CO2... do I use the API GH/KH solution? I heard there was some sort of chart somewhere to determine the CO2 ppm...

 

[KatieJ]

GEEZ. I think I might know what killed my shrimp.

So I tested the pH - last couple of times it was between. 8.2 and 8.4. The last time I'd tested it was on the 8th; it was around 8.2 then. Today I tested it and it's between 7.4 and 7.6. (I tested twice to make sure), probably more around 7.4. Could it have dropped REALLY quickly over the last two days from my setting up of the CO2? Would the shock have killed the shrimp?

All in all, here are the test results:

pH: ~7.4
KH: 19 degrees
CO2 (from this online calculator I found; not sure if it's accurate or not): ~22 ppm?
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: <hardly even 1 ppm. I wonder if there IS a nitrogen deficiency in my plants. Since I don't have any fish - only shrimp, which produce hardly any bioload - could I get away with getting a small bottle of Seachem Nitrogen? Or would adding fish (aiming for a school of 8-10 chili rasboras) be more preferred?

 

[jetajockey]

Okay, I wouldn't worry about the pH shift in itself, since it's common for pH to drop a full point or more daily in tanks with pressurized co2.

Here's some info on drop checkers.

Drop Checkers - How They Work - Tropical Fish Forums

And this is a snippet from CO2 For The Planted Tank | Q and A

.There are several ways to measure your CO2 levels in your aquarium. One is using the pH/kH/CO2 chart. You can find one in my Guide. There are some problems with this method though. One is that small inaccuracies in your test kits or your use of the test kits can lead to big mistakes in how much CO2 you think you have in the tank. The other major problem is that if there are any buffers besides bicarbonates and CO2 in the water you will not get accurate results. Peat, wood, some rocks and pH buffers can skew the results. Another method is the pH drop method. Take a water sample from your tank and measure the pH. Now let the sample sit for 24-48 hours. Measure the pH again. If you have a 1° drop in the pH then you have 30 ppm of CO2. It works but it's kind of slow. A new method that is gaining popularity is a drop checker. I'm not going to go into detail about that method here (if someone wants to write it up I will include it here and in my Guide). So head over to The Planted Tank - Articles, Forums, Pictures, Links and check the forums there. One thing to note, if you are NOT injecting CO2 then you only have 2-3 ppm no matter what the pH/kH/CO2 chart shows. It just means you have something in the water that is lowering the pH.

I honestly think that the inverts got gassed, it doesn't take a lot to cause major levels in that size tank. I would minimize the co2 usage and keep the agitation up until you can get a drop checker setup.

 

[Ibrahim]

I'm hesitant to do RO water or even bottled water - I don't have a car and ride my bike 2 miles to the pet store, so carrying a bunch of water in a backpack is out of the question. Bottled water is expensive as well - I'm a college student and can't afford to pour all that money down the drain, so to speak.

The thing I'm concerned about is that this isn't the "first week or so" - these plants have been in here for almost a month.

Thanks for the article! But unfortunately I'm afraid the method won't work - if I add dewormer and have to remove the shrimp from the tank, I'd have nowhere to put them. My betta is temporarily in the only other tank I have, and I'm too broke to afford a tank just for the shrimp while getting rid of the worms. Would water changes and scrubbing the glass really hard work? (Then again, I'd worry about disrupting the bacteria) Some sort of shrimp/plant-safe chemical?

As far as lighting goes, the specs are on the first page. I have a 13w compact flourescent lamp (a neat clip-on from Fluval), and the tank is five gallons. Less than that if you count the fact that there's 2-3 inches of substrate. From what I've researched, it's enough light for moderate plants.

Save up and get a Moped. They really help you get around short distances for about 400 on CL. And no license plate or license needed. And they are even more helpful if you are a college student

 

[aqua_chem]

Save up and get a Moped. They really help you get around short distances for about 400 on CL. And no license plate or license needed. And they are even more helpful if you are a college student

I drive 125cc scooter. While they're very fun to drive, they're very light and feel awkward when you have a gallon of milk in your backpack, much less several gallons of water.

70 mpg though.

 

[KatieJ]

Mmkay, back on topic. I can't afford a scooter and probably won't try to anytime soon; I'd rather save up 400 bucks for a Biocube anyway. But thanks.

I'll look at getting the drop checker. Thanks to jetajockey for the fenbendazole; I'm currently letting it get mixed in a small cup of water for a while before I put it in the tank.

Looks like no more shrimp have died; I'm pretty sure there's half a dozen RCS in there with 3 or 4 ghosties. Would they produce enough ammonia to feed the bacteria or should I invest in more?

Checked the bubble counter this morning; I'm getting about 1 to 2 bubbles every 5 seconds. The tank lid is still off - should I just go ahead and permanently leave it off to allow for better gas exchange? Would the CO2 get trapped between the lid and water? The only openings in the lid are one that's about an 2" by 1" for feeding, and a couple of small openings to allow the filter and clip-on CFL to fit.

Sorry for the 6 pages of questions. This is a challenging experience, which I supposed makes it all the more fun.

 

[jetajockey]

Glad things are turning around for you.
The bacteria will adjust to the bioload large or small, there's no need to add stock just for the sake of it.

I'd leave the co2 at whatever has been working for you in the past 24h, at least till you get an accurate way to measure the level in the tank. Without a drop checker, to me, it'd be similar to eyeball-dosing excel or some other strong chemical into a small tank like that, i.e. potentially disastrous if not done carefully.

 

[KatieJ]

Haha, the author of one of the articles I read (not one that you listed) at first thought drop checkers were aquarium mood rings! XD

I'm searching around online but the drop checkers I'm finding are, like, 40 bucks. Seemed a bit too expensive for my budget. This is the only one on Amazon that I could find at a good price; does anyone know if it's reliable? Amazon.com: Drop Checker - Glass CO2 Indicator for Aquarium Ada Fish Tank Plants: Patio, Lawn & Garden

On another note, my bubbles have now increased to a steady 1 every 2 to 3 seconds.

 

[jetajockey]

I believe mfdrookie found some on ebay for just a few bucks

 

[picture_117]

Yeah they're on eBay for cheaps.
I just got one for 6 dollars & free shipping.

 

[KatieJ]

Found a pretty nice deal on eBay for the drop checker and a glass diffuser (the plastic one from Fluval is a piece of crap >.>) with free shipping. I also got another check valve on Amazon for the tubing between the bubble counter and the diffuser.

 

[KatieJ]

Huh. I did a 50-60% pwc last night to get rid of the fenbendazole in the water, but I still saw flatworms (as well as copepod-like things; they might be cyclops... are they safe?), so I added a very, very tiny pinch more that was previously soaked in a little bit of water. The water was pretty cloudy after the pwc but I didn't think much of it. Now, almost 12 hours later, it's still cloudy. I did clean the filter floss a little by just squeezing it out in the tank water - should I have done this in a bucket instead? XD; I'm worried for my remaining shrimp. Should I do another pwc?

 

[jetajockey]

Huh. I did a 50-60% pwc last night to get rid of the fenbendazole in the water, but I still saw flatworms (as well as copepod-like things; they might be cyclops... are they safe?), so I added a very, very tiny pinch more that was previously soaked in a little bit of water. The water was pretty cloudy after the pwc but I didn't think much of it. Now, almost 12 hours later, it's still cloudy. I did clean the filter floss a little by just squeezing it out in the tank water - should I have done this in a bucket instead? XD; I'm worried for my remaining shrimp. Should I do another pwc?

It is possible that they are out and about because the meds are messing with them, I know after treating my tanks I always see a bunch on the tank walls. I don't know about the copepods, but they aren't really a concern.

Squeezing the filter out in the tank wouldve caused it to be cloudy but it should've cleared up by now. It could just be a bacterial bloom, which happens sometimes with large water changes. The biggest concern I'd have is making sure there isn't any ammonia/nitrite in the tank since it is still somewhat of a fairly new setup.

 

[KatieJ]

Update: The water's crystal clear; looks like the fenbendazole worked. I still see the occasional flatworm, but it's nowhere near as bad as before. I'm seeing more copepods than anything. They're not harmful, right? They look like this, only veerrry tiny - smaller than a flea. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_puTVILFyI9M/S1S8i6fCh6I/AAAAAAAAAjw/-_jKRGo5KSs/s320/cyclopscopepod-2.jpg

I received 13 new RCS in the mail earlier today (it was supposed to be 15, but 2 were DOAs. :/). Drip acclimation was very gentle - they've settled in smoothly, and are already picking for food.

Also, I just received my CO2 drop checker with some 4dKH solution. Yay! But how the eff am I supposed to get the liquid in the ball? I've tried shaking/tilting the thing vigorously, but half of it still ends up not in the ball and eventually getting soaked up into a bunch of tissues. Or am I just putting too much in? I heard it was supposed to be less than half full?

Edit: Nevermind, I got it! Took a while, but it's about half full and suction-cupped onto the glass.