Adding Fish To Aggressive Tank

[SAAER45]

Hi, new here, thanks in advance for any advice...

I have a 30 gallon freshwater tank that currently houses a Jewel Cichlid and a Bumblebee Cichlid, everytime I try to add another aggressive fish, these two residents (Mostly the Bumblebee) tear it apart. I've taken every precaution and recommendation I've recieved... Changing Environment, Feeding resident fish before release, tuning off tank light after release. The latest attempt was an Oscar who was a little BIGGER than the other ones, and after one night he is in the great fish tank in the sky.

Thanks In advance for any advice,
John

 

[richiestang_78]

I use to have 3 cichlids, the 2 larger ones killed off the small one and then like you would kill anything else large I put in the tank.

 

[Jchillin]

Your issue is the bane of all aggressive tank keepers, so take heart in knowing you are not alone.

Each method you mentioned are the tried and true ones. If they haven't worked, it is probably because of the specific species you are trying or have tried. What species have you introduced so far other than the Oscar?

 

[SAAER45]

Your issue is the bane of all aggressive tank keepers, so take heart in knowing you are not alone.

Each method you mentioned are the tried and true ones. If they haven't worked, it is probably because of the specific species you are trying or have tried. What species have you introduced so far other than the Oscar?

Well this is my second attempt with an Oscar, I've also tried a Blood Parrot and various other that I can't even remember because their time in the tank was so short... Can you recommend something?

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA!

IMO the main reason is the tank size. There isn't enough room to offer enough territories for your aggressive fish. A larger tank provides more room for territories so when you move things around, and try the other methods, the new fish are able to establish their own territory as well. There is no guarantees to be sure. I introduced a cichlid into my 125 gal and had removed all the ornaments, done a water change, and add the new guy when the food was dropped in for the others and while putting back the rocks and ornaments and he was gone 6 hours later. Other fish have been introduced since then with no problems.

If you want to try again, what I would do is completely remove all rocks and decorations, do a pwc, then while putting the rocks/ornaments back in, add new fish and feed tank. Good luck.

 

[SAAER45]

Well thank you for the response, but the fish really aren't that big... The Bumblebee is around 4 inches and the Jewel is maybe 3 1/2. The tank looks so empty, I can't imagine that there isn't enough room...

 

[Lonewolfblue]

You would have better luck adding another fish if it was a much larger tank. But 30G is small, and territories are already set, no matter how you move the decor around.

 

[Zagz]

I understand the fish are small , that isn't the problem. It's the spacing area. With 2- 4" fish, they have pretty much taken over all the territory. I understand the tank looks empty. This isn't a fish size issue, it's a territory size issue. All I am saying is the tank size is going to make it more difficult due to the nature of the fish.

Try as I suggested to introduce new fish and see how it goes. Another option is to move the 2 exsisting cichlids to a QT tank or rubbermaid container, remove all the tank contents, add the new fish and then add the cichlids back in.

 

[SAAER45]

Another option is to move the 2 exsisting cichlids to a QT tank or rubbermaid container, remove all the tank contents, add the new fish and then add the cichlids back in.

That's a good idea, I could definetly try that... I also had one more idea, that I wonder if you think could work. I wondered if I put a screen through the middle of the tank for a while seperating the fish, while they could both still eat and have fresh water. After that, I thought they might get accustomed to each other and I could seperate the screen... Could that work also???

 

[Jchillin]

I also had one more idea, that I wonder if you think could work. I wondered if I put a screen through the middle of the tank for a while seperating the fish, while they could both still eat and have fresh water. After that, I thought they might get accustomed to each other and I could seperate the screen... Could that work also???

Actually no. They can see each other and even though the screen is there, the area that they cannot get to is part of their territory...not to mention the fact that there is another fish in it. Using a tank screen is primarily for safeguarding fry, not separating aggressive species. Cichlids in particular have these territorial issues and in the wild, these territories can cover a large amount of space. The limitations of the 30 probably leave you with no options.

 

[SAAER45]

OK, one last question, If I was to try again could you recommend a type of fish to try?

 

[SAAER45]

I went to the store today to look for possible replacements and wondered, how come the newly intoduced fish don't fight back? They are bigger than the resident fish in the tank... What fish can I put in that would hold it's own against the 3 12 inch Jewel and the 4 inch Bumblebee (without killing them obviously)?

 

[Jchillin]

I honestly have no suggestions for you. Jewels are known to be extremely territorial and as I mentioned earlier, take possession of large areas. Most folks agree that only a very large tough fish can be added.

Problem is as said earlier, your tank cannot support a fish large enough to hold it's own with your existing fish. If we were discussing a 75 and up, a full grown Oscar may have been just the ticket.

 

[Zagz]

The new fish don't fight back IMO because of territories. It is a natural thing. When being introduced to something new, they are stress and unfamiliar with their surroundings. The exsisting fish are territorial and will defend their territory. The new fish may fight a bit but they are still stressed and bewildered by the move from what they were familiar with.

I can't offer a reasonable option either to try and introduce to your tank. You can keep checking online and see if there are any possibilities for compatibility. I still think the territory size will kill any chance of success but hope I am wrong.

 

[SAAER45]

I feel bad for throwing all these question at you, hope you don't mind too much...

I found this on another site:

Other Tank Mates

A common question is “What other kinds of fish can I put with my cichlids?” Well, the response to this question depends HEAVILY on which Africans you're talking about. In general, fish that do well with Africans are Synodontis catfish, most Botia Loaches, most Labeo Sharks (including related fish such as the “Flying Fox”), larger Rainbowfish & Danios, most suckermouth catfish (Plecos) and the larger Tetras (the “African Redy-Eye Tetra,” “Diamond” Tetras, “Black Tail” Tetras, and “Congo” Tetras. Be aware that some of these have neutral pH requirements but can tolerate higher pHs, like those required by African cichlids. This is something to take into consideration when mixing cichlids with other freshwater fish.

Is this true? One last thing (I promise after this, I'll shut up ), The same page also said that if I get cichlids of a different color and genus, they would be thought as as less of a threat (assuming I take all the above precatuions in this thread) Is that true?

 

[Jchillin]

That looks like it was drawn from a general discussion on tankmates for the typical african cichlid, which is true. What the above does not go into is tank sizes and any specific species of african cichlid.

Here are some thoughts I gathered online:

The Jewel Cichlid grows around 10-15 cm. It is an African cichlid that can be quite fierce, especially when it is breeding - spawns on flat stones. It maintains a large territory - to be kept in large tanks with rocks and hiding places. Its water requirements are not demanding as long as it has a pH from 6.5 - 7.5 and either slightly soft to hard water. The Jewel Cichlid is usually dull in pet stores. When in full colour, they are orange to red with several rows of blue irridescent flecks the body has two black dots - one on the gill cover and one on the mid section of the body. Fins are yellow to pale green edged with black. Males are more colourful than females, slightly larger than females and females are rounder. They tend to dig into the substrate. They can be kept with large, tough fish only - it is a very hard fish to combine with others.

The Jewel Cichlid originated from the rivers in Africa in the Zaire region. It is one of the most aggressive tropical fish and is not suited for a community tank.

Jewel cichlid is another one of all those cichlids that has gotten a bad reputation for being aggressive without actually deserving it. Sure, jewel cichlids are aggressive if your used to keeping in Guppy and Danios and compare them to fish like those, but this doesn’t really mean that they aggressive. The truth is that Jewel cichlids seldom bother fish of other species outside it’s own outside the breeding period and you can’t really blame them for chasing away any other fish that approaches their fry.

My experiences with jewel cichlids are that they without any problems can be kept in most community aquariums as long as to fragile species are avoided. You should however be able to keep them with just about any cichlid that grows larger then 10cm/ 4 inches as well as with many species of dwarf cichlids. Other suitable companions for Jewel cichlids include danios, silver dollars, cory cats, sucker mouth plecos, different barb species, synodontis catfish and a number of other fishes.

Jewel cichlids are very hardy fish that can adept to most surroundings as long as there are caves and a few flats rocks present. They are not suitable for aquariums of less than 150 L / 40 gallon. A smaller aquarium can be used to house a single pair for breeding purposes. Jewel cichlids do best with pH 6.5-7.5 but will accept pH 6-8 and temperature 23-27C / 74-80F.

HTH.

 

[SAAER45]

If anyone is interested for future problems, I had success by feeding the resident cichlids tuffys to fill them up and tire them out... I then mixed up the environment and let an Electric Blue, Electic Yellow, Scolofi, and a Pleco in with no casualties!

Thanks for all the help,
John

 

[Jchillin]

I wish you all the success with what you've done, but I have to say one day does not make success. Hopefully this will work out.

 

[SAAER45]

one day does not make success

Very true, but from my experience (maybe not yours), if the fish are going to kill a newly introduced one, you see the effects (at least aggression) within the first 24 hours (at least I have).

 

[Menagerie]

I agree with Jchilling. In time, that tank will self destruct. There are many posts about that from people tossing in various cichilds with each other. Having done that myself, I will tell you a larger tank needs to be in your future. My Mbuna cichlids were from a 30 gallon tank, which was relatively calm and in under a week somebody hit his sexual maturity and was aggressively going after every fish in the tank. The aggressive fish was IDed and sent packing while the other fish moved up to an 80 gallon.

Well this is my second attempt with an Oscar, I've also tried a Blood Parrot and various other that I can't even remember because their time in the tank was so short... Can you recommend something?

You were mixing regional fish which have different ways of coping with each other and different territory "rules" and different water needs.