Aggressive Mbuna Cichlid

[Matman1110]

Hey,
I have a 47 gallon upright tank that is currently housing 9 fish. My tank is doing pretty good except there's one fish, an ice blue zebra cichlid, who relentlessly pursues fish bigger than itself. This mbuna is about 3.5 inches long and is constantly badgering my beautiful 5 inch Nimbochromis Fuscotaeniatus. He was also fighting with my yellow lab. For some reason he leaves the smaller fish alone.

Here are my list of fish and their (sizes) in inches
-Ice Blue Zebra (3.5 inches)
-Yellow Lab (4.5)
-Nimbochromis Fuscotaeniatus (5 or 5.5)
-Nimbochromis Livingstonii (3)
-Electric Blue Hap male (3)
-Electric Blue female (3)
-Lemon cichlid (2.5)
-Common Pleco (5)

I know ive broken alot of rules for keeping africans but my tank is actually been doing very well. Its just this one mbuna that is bothering the chemistry of the tank. Ive heard that crowding tanks can control mbuna aggression. Should i add more mbuna cichlids to my tank?

 

[Mogurako]

There is always a chance of getting a hyper aggressive male. I would either rearrange the decor in the tank forcing them to establish new territories or remove the aggressor from the tank for 24 hours.

I would also eventually rethink your stock list/ upgrade to a bigger tank. The adult sizes of some of those fish will not work in that small of a tank.

 

[Matman1110]

This guy must be super aggressive then cuz i did a water change and removed all the ornaments and while i was siphoning the water he still was chasing the other fish. And now ive replaced the objects in the same spot because there isnt much surface room to work with for an upright tall aquarium. After the water change he is still being highly aggressive.

Also i do not have another tank. Are there any tips on how i can remove this guy?

 

[Mogurako]

This guy must be super aggressive then cuz i did a water change and removed all the ornaments and while i was siphoning the water he still was chasing the other fish. And now ive replaced the objects in the same spot because there isnt much surface room to work with for an upright tall aquarium. After the water change he is still being highly aggressive.

Also i do not have another tank. Are there any tips on how i can remove this guy?

You can put him in a rubbermade tote or bucket with a heater and filter.

What are the dimensions of this tank?

 

[Matman1110]

I think the dimensions are 20x18x32 inches high.
I do not have an extra heater or filter, which would you recommend for a small tank or bucket?

I was thinking about purchasing a small hospital tank for sick or injured fish, but now i could use one for this purpose as well.

 

[Mogurako]

I think the dimensions are 20x18x32 inches high.

20" wide 18" deep and 32" tall?! If so that tank is nowhere near large enough for the adult size of all those fish and that explains the aggression issues.

 

[Matman1110]

Haha, i know the dimensions seem small but this tank has gotten along very well and has accomodated this combination of fish for a long time. It has just been this recent surge of aggression in this one mbuna cichlid thats making me wonder what i should do.

Ive been wanting to upgrade my tank and am contemplating of getting a 75 gal for these fish in novemeber for my bday, but until then i need another solution.

 

[Mogurako]

Haha, i know the dimensions seem small but this tank has gotten along very well and has accomodated this combination of fish for a long time. It has just been this recent surge of aggression in this one mbuna cichlid thats making me wonder what i should do.

Ive been wanting to upgrade my tank and am contemplating of getting a 75 gal for these fish in novemeber for my bday, but until then i need another solution.

The tank couldn't have been set up that long judging by the current size of the fish and if it has then then the fish have experienced stunting. The aggression will only start to get more extreme as the male s start to sexually mature. Nimbochromis Fuscotaeniatus alone can reach 12", all those fish need 125 gallons+ 150-180 preferred.

 

[Matman1110]

How long would you expect a Nimbochromis Fusco to grow from 2 inches to 5.5 or 6 inches and pretty much quadrupling in size?

 

[Mogurako]

How long would you expect a Nimbochromis Fusco to grow from 2 inches to 5.5 or 6 inches and pretty much quadrupling in size?

4-6 months would be my guess based roughly on a rate of half an inch of growth per month, some times as much as an inch a month if provided a good diet.

Nimbochromis Fusco is also a carnivore and i would imagine once large enough it will start to munch on smaller members of the aquarium.

 

[Matman1110]

wow really that quick? Ive had him for 10 months, and it seemed like he was growing at an extreme pace for the first 5 or 6 months and once he got bigger he grew more slowly which would be expected i would think.

Do u think this is still a case of stunting? Also if it is, is it harmful for the fish or does is cause any pain to the fish?

 

[Mogurako]

I was looking at monster fish keepers and they were saying that fish can grow up to an inch a month and will start to slow down around the 6-7 mark but still grown at a good pace. There are many speculations on what stunting actually does to the fish but normally it's slows growth do to stress,overcrowding and poor water conditions because the volume of the water allows toxins to build up quick than that of appropriate sized aquarium relative to their size.

What are your water parameters and how often do you do water changes?

 

[Mogurako]

I did some more reading into "stunting" it seems when fish grow they give off a "growth hormone" and if the concentration of this hormone is to high in the tank the fish/s will stop growing until there is less of a concentration of it in the water. So provided good water conditions they will continue to grow, however if they grow so big they can't turn around in the tank or get spooked and hit the glass allot that's no good.

Heres a picture of a roughly 18" common pleco at my LFS that they rescued. It was kept in and 55 because he couldn't move his spine actually grew crooked.

 

[Matman1110]

I did some more reading into "stunting" it seems when fish grow they give off a "growth hormone" and if the concentration of this hormone is to high in the tank the fish/s will stop growing until there is less of a concentration of it in the water. So provided good water conditions they will continue to grow, however if they grow so big they can't turn around in the tank or get spooked and hit the glass allot that's no good.

Heres a picture of a roughly 18" common pleco at my LFS that they rescued. It was kept in and 55 because he couldn't move his spine actually grew crooked.

Hmm, i am pretty keen about water changes and do them every 2 to 4 weeks. If i notice the tank is building up muck i will quickly do a water change. I change about 1/3 to 1/2 of the water every time. Every time i go to the fish store i bring in a sample of my water to test and every time it comes out clean. I dont have ammonia, nitrate and nitrite test kits at home but i test the pH every now and then and add buffer if it gets too low.

I keep a very close eye on what goes on in my tank and if i see something that doesnt look right i try to find a solution asap.

In terms of the fish being unable to turn around, that is not the case. My Fusco has ample room to turn, although i will admit the tank is not ideal for a horizontal type fish like this. That is why id like to upgrade to a 75 gallon longer tank.

Back to mbuna issue. I woke up this morning and he is still being very aggressive especially towards my fusco. I would like to remove him but dont have an extra heater or filter. Can i temporarily remove him in a bucket without the heater and filter? Also should i fill the bucket with new fresh water or use the tank water? How long do you think i could keep the fish in there without a heater and filter?

Thanks for your help

 

[Mogurako]

There is absolutely no way your levels stay with in an acceptable range with that many fish in such a small tank for weeks at a time, unless it's heavily planted. I have nine 1"-2.5" cichlids in a 90 gallon and I still have to do weekly water changes to keep the levels down. I really recommend getting your own API fresh water master kit and test your water every-other day or so.

Don't muck around with the ph to much I would just add crushed coral to the tank/filter and call it a done deal. The calcium carbonate will slowly dissolve out of the coral and naturally buffer the water. I do that and use cichlid sand and I run a steady ph of 8.4-8.6

Maybe just putting him in a bucket with tank water and an airstone for a couple of hours then bag him and temp match and add him back to the main tank.

If you are serious about keeping a lake malawi haplochromine like Nimbochromis Fusco you really need a 125 gallon + tank they need tons of swim room, also this is what will happen to all the other fish that are too small in your tank when your Fusco grows up, that is a good size electric blue ahli btw.

 

[Matman1110]

There is absolutely no way your levels stay with in an acceptable range with that many fish in such a small tank for weeks at a time, unless it's heavily planted. I have nine 1"-2.5" cichlids in a 90 gallon and I still have to do weekly water changes to keep the levels down. I really recommend getting your own API fresh water master kit and test your water every-other day or so.

Don't muck around with the ph to much I would just add crushed coral to the tank/filter and call it a done deal. The calcium carbonate will slowly dissolve out of the coral and naturally buffer the water. I do that and use cichlid sand and I run a steady ph of 8.4-8.6

Maybe just putting him in a bucket with tank water and an airstone for a couple of hours then bag him and temp match and add him back to the main tank.

If you are serious about keeping a lake malawi haplochromine like Nimbochromis Fusco you really need a 125 gallon + tank they need tons of swim room, also this is what will happen to all the other fish that are too small in your tank when your Fusco grows up, that is a good size electric blue ahli btw.

I dont know maybe i have a very strong filtration system. I do remember purchasing a filter suited for bigger tanks. The filter is a Fluval 4plus that has 260 GPH.

I will go out and buy an API master kit like you mentioned and maybe replace this extremely aggressive cichlid. I took him out of the tank for a few hours and then put him back in and within 5 minutes he was back to chasing Fusco.

Also is it possible that the water parameters could be different at the top of the tank compared to the bottom? If so this could explain why all my tests at the store came out clean.

When you test your tank for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite how do you collect the water samples?

So 125 gallons would be the absolute bare minimum for this fish to be happy? If so i might have to consider switching to new world cichlids. Theres no possible way i can fit a 125 gallon tank in my room.

 

[Mogurako]

I dont know maybe i have a very strong filtration system. I do remember purchasing a filter suited for bigger tanks. The filter is a Fluval 4plus that has 260 GPH.

The amount of filtration really doesn't factor in to the water parameters, it boils down to how well the bacteria can break down the waste and convert it in to the less harmful nitrates. The general rule of thumb for filtration however is turning over the entire volume of the tank 8-10 times per hour.

I will go out and buy an API master kit like you mentioned and maybe replace this extremely aggressive cichlid. I took him out of the tank for a few hours and then put him back in and within 5 minutes he was back to chasing Fusco.

That test kit is extremely helpful and you will find it's well worth the money.

Sounds like you will just have to give away the redtop, that happens sometimes with Mbuna.

Also is it possible that the water parameters could be different at the top of the tank compared to the bottom? If so this could explain why all my tests at the store came out clean.

When you test your tank for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite how do you collect the water samples?

It should not matter what level of the tank the water comes from it should all give the same results.

When I collect my water sample I use one of those syringes they use to give babies medicine so I am sure I only put in 5ml of water, which is what the directs for the test kits call for. You can buy them at pretty much any pharmacy.

So 125 gallons would be the absolute bare minimum for this fish to be happy? If so i might have to consider switching to new world cichlids. Theres no possible way i can fit a 125 gallon tank in my room.

IMO yes, Haps are open water swimmers and need that length to swim. If you just want to keep peacocks or Mbuna the smallest you could go is a 4' 55 gallon.

Unless you are going for dwarf cichlids, you are looking at 55 gallon+ tanks for pretty much any cichlid. Keep in mind the total volume of these tanks isn't really as important as the dimensions (length and width).