Aimed at "newbies"

[TenaciousTriggerFish]

I Have been a member on this forum for quite some time and would like to express something that I'm sure we have all experienced. This is in no means meant as a deterrent to new comers and novice aquarists. I have become increasingly frustrated over the last few months by constant ich and aiptasia posts that have been popping up and flooding the ID section. I understand people's concern for their aquatic friends but people need to take a little initiative sometimes. When I log on and check the ID or sick fish sections and half the threads on each are "is this ich" or "is this aiptasia" it gets incredibly annoying and repetitive. Sometimes people need to take some personal accountability and do some research. If you know what aiptasia is then do a google search as opposed to taking up space on the forum for yet another aiptasia thread. There are people out there that have things that they need identified but they keep getting pushed further and further down the line with every new "aiptasia?, or I think this is aiptasia" thread clogging up the arteries. If you can spell aiptasia then you know what it is. The same thing goes with the constant ich threads and in the exact same manner. If you think it's aiptasia or ich then show some incentive and do a google search or search on this forum for it cause there is 5 million other people that have posted asking the same question and got the same answer. For a forum that [edit] everyone for being off topic I'm surprised at how lenient it is with some other more concerning issues. I am a member on many other forums and all of them will close a thread with a suggestion to actually get your fingers moving and do a search for the thousands or millions of other threads on there that already deal with the exact same issue. If a person doesn't know is one thing but like I said if you can spell the word or ask about it by some spelling rendition of the name then you know enough about it to save us all time in saying "yes it is and you need to treat it by doing this" well that's my gripe and I'm sure many others so I'll end it here and wish everyone longevity and happy pest eradication.

I'm a self Proclaimed "experienced noob". I presently dis-agree ich for instance I know there is at least one or two parasites that look similar... And if I didn't have a experienced freind to text I would have put it on here for one reason: : personnel responses : these are the best for newbies because there is a lot of "poop" on google lol and a lot of idiots when I post a question here I am in the presence of friendly people who if they do so chose to will answer my question gladly because I personally pannick when something drastic happens to my tank and a personnel answer or even better two or three different ones is the most re-assuring

2) if you would not like to respond to the ich and the other (I don't even know what this is) kindS of threads... Then well keep scrolling... Because ur right if someone asks ANY QUESTION you can be sure it's already been asked... But when your frantick ... You probably can't find it...

3) just yesterday I posted about how to make clay pots safe for aquariums.... I know it's a dumb question but I couldn't find it on google and after one post, one response, and one thank you I am not scared adding it to my tank to better benefit my tank and my knowledge to help other people

 

[hpiguy]

I completely agree. I also want to add (I think fort may have said this earlier), post count does not necessarily equivalent experience level or aquarium knowledge. For all we know our new members may have had 45 years of fishkeeping experience already!

Exactly. Date of membership on this particular website doesn't mean they have less experience than anyone else.

A lot of people just assume that though. "Oh look, they are new here, they must have no experience, better ignore them." As if the person and their sometimes decades of experience did not exist until they came across this website and registered.

 

[TenaciousTriggerFish]

Exactly. Date of membership on this particular website doesn't mean they have less experience than anyone else.

A lot of people just assume that though. "Oh look, they are new here, they must have no experience, better ignore them." As if the person and their sometimes decades of experience did not exist until they came across this website and registered.

Very true

 

[kdpuffer]

I am not trying to deter people from asking questions And I understand people getting frantic when something goes wrong. My issue is with someone asking if they have ich or aiptasia in a new thread when the next thread bellow it already deals with the exact same thing and outlines all the ways to deal with the issue. I have come across it numerous times where there are at least three "is this aiptasia" threads on the first page of the Id forum. If you don't know what something is then ask but if your asking by name then you know what it is and can do a search for it.

 

[butterfly_koi]

I am not trying to deter people from asking questions And I understand people getting frantic when something goes wrong. My issue is with someone asking if they have ich or aiptasia in a new thread when the next thread bellow it already deals with the exact same thing and outlines all the ways to deal with the issue. I have come across it numerous times where there are at least three "is this aiptasia" threads on the first page of the Id forum. If you don't know what something is then ask but if your asking by name then you know what it is and can do a search for it.

I myself have answered question after question about driftwood, sand ect. I understand after a while it can feel like your repeating yourself over and over, the best solution I have came across to solve the repeating question was to write an article about it. I read each and every thread to figure out most asked questions on the subject and tried to touch base on each of them. That way when we get these repeated questions there is a page that they can refer back whenever needed and pass along to the next inquiring mind.

 

[fort384]

That is an excellent solution. We always need additional content for the front page.

 

[TenaciousTriggerFish]

I myself have answered question after question about driftwood, sand ect. I understand after a while it can feel like your repeating yourself over and over, the best solution I have came across to solve the repeating question was to write an article about it. I read each and every thread to figure out most asked questions on the subject and tried to touch base on each of them. That way when we get these repeated questions there is a page that they can refer back whenever needed and pass along to the next inquiring mind.

Very good idea but what I have found is the articles seem hard to find maybe an admin would

 

[Andy Sager]

People are not so easily split up into categories. One may know worlds about African cichlids, but be a total beginner at breeding killifish. Who is to say what issue is advanced or not? Separating things out like that can create confusion leave more room for questions to slip through the cracks and never be answered.

I am just going to add that I certainly understand frustrations with people not doing any research and instead seeking instant gratification, but there are tons of circumstances and situations that drive people to ask the questions they ask. Be careful when talking to new people and give them a bit of benefit of the doubt. You certainly can ignore questions as well and leave them for people who don't mind answering. I often have to leave threads for people with more patience than me.

I see your point but what I was saying, more to the point, was that as an " advanced" hobbyist, they would have a bit more understanding of the basics to not have to ask "Is this ich?" or "How do I handle this situation?" with the caviat being that as an advanced hobbyist, they would be able to post on both sections. However, if you are an advanced hobbyist in say, breeding Killifish and a newbie in say, African cichlids, I would think that you would want to check out and participate in the newbie section of Africans. I don't see the problem. Does that make sense? I personally would qualify as an advanced hobbyist in about 75% -80% of today's hobby but there have been new fish that have been discovered or created since I was in the biz that I would have no problem going to the newbie section to get the info on them or how to care for them.
As I said, the filtering would be a issue and I don't deny it. I just used the way AA determins "newbie, finatic, Addict" as an example. I'm a fish guy, not a computer guy. Personally, I would like to see everybody who signs on have to fill out a profile form and state their experience level. ( I have to do that on some of my business forums that I belong to.) While it might be an easy thing to fake, the questions asked by a newbie vs an advanced hobbyist are pretty easy to differentiate.

Once again, I am not here on this site not to help. It's the whole reason I got interested in this site in the first place. It just can be a bit frustrating to look at soooo many threads on the same topic, repeated over and over and over again. Scrolling past them sometimes is a job unto itself.

Once again, this was just a suggestion regarding the OP's frustration.

 

[absolutangel04]

I can see where you are coming from, I just don't think it's a good idea. Personally, I would rather scroll through a few extra questions than change over to a system like that. I really like our community, and one reason for that is because people of all experience levels are allowed to ask questions and contribute. Labeling people as "experienced" or "inexperienced" does not actually help the content of their advice. Also, fish keeping certainly yields multiple opinions, so I would not be a fan of a system where people need to fill out a resume in order to be taken seriously by others. There is not always one way of doing things, and it would be sad for a new person to have valid info ignored because they have not kept fish for as long as somebody else. If the info given is not valid, our more experienced or knowledgeable members are certainly welcome to chime in and offer their opinions as well. I think people on the forum can often figure out pretty fast who knows their stuff and who could use a bit more knowledge to be fully helpful.

 

[butterfly_koi]

Very good idea but what I have found is the articles seem hard to find maybe an admin would

Articles are posted on the front page of the site, if there isn't something your looking for on the front page there is a search box where you can search for things there. I do wish that there was a section on the app for articles though, that would be wonderful.

 

[Andy Sager]

I can see where you are coming from, I just don't think it's a good idea. Personally, I would rather scroll through a few extra questions than change over to a system like that. I really like our community, and one reason for that is because people of all experience levels are allowed to ask questions and contribute. Labeling people as "experienced" or "inexperienced" does not actually help the content of their advice. Also, fish keeping certainly yields multiple opinions, so I would not be a fan of a system where people need to fill out a resume in order to be taken seriously by others. There is not always one way of doing things, and it would be sad for a new person to have valid info ignored because they have not kept fish for as long as somebody else. If the info given is not valid, our more experienced or knowledgeable members are certainly welcome to chime in and offer their opinions as well. I think people on the forum can often figure out pretty fast who knows their stuff and who could use a bit more knowledge to be fully helpful.

I may not have made myself clear, I am not saying that I want to exclude ANYONE from posting. I am simply trying to express an idea where a newer person might better be able to find answers to their questions , supplied by an advanced or newbie hobbyist, if they didn't have to scroll through all the threads. Conversely, the advanced hobbyist wouldn't need to scroll through multiple repetitive threads looking for the info they were looking for either. I can see the plus side to this format as well as the minus so please don't think I am against the way things are. Keep in mind tho that most info received by a "newbie' was gotten via an experienced hobbyist as their source. Under the current format, there is no decernable way for a newbie to know if the info being given on a thread is coming from someone who has "been there, done that" or someone who just likes to see their name on a post. If they read an answer filled with wrong info before the moderator or other member catches it, the damage is already done. Probable outcome: Dead fish. It's a complicated issue, I know.
I got this idea from my schooling. I don't know if schools still teach in this manner but when I was in school, there were prerequisite classes you had to take before you could get into an advanced class of a subject. For example, you couldn't get into Algabra class if you didn't take the basic math class and pass it. You couldn't get into Algabra 2 without going through Algabra 1, etc. Expanding on this format might be a plus for this site. Who knows?

As for the "filling out a resume" I think it WOULD be more helpful to a newbie to know that the info is coming from an experienced member vs. an inexperienced member. I've used this analogy before but I think it still fits: If you wanted to know what it's like on the moon, would you ask Neil Armstrong or the scientists who got him to the moon? No matter how smart the scientist were, Neil has the experience and was there on it so he would know better. Don't you agree?

 

[Wroberson]

I think many of people start new threads because they don't want to hijack someone else's thread or be accused of it. Their situation is as unique as the other posts. Somtimes ich occurs at a specific temperature, sometimes it's brought home with the last fish or plant they bought, sometimes it caused by improper nutrition or contaminated water.

I understand the OP's stress too. I desire new information also. Then there's this social networking thing and wanting to be heard.

 

[jetajockey]

I think many of people start new threads because they don't want to hijack someone else's thread or be accused of it. Their situation is as unique as the other posts. Somtimes ich occurs at a specific temperature, sometimes it's brought home with the last fish or plant they bought, sometimes it caused by improper nutrition or contaminated water.

I understand the OP's stress too. I desire new information also. Then there's this social networking thing and wanting to be heard.

That's a good point. If someone's situation doesn't match another's verbatim they may still want to have their own thread going because it could have a different outcome.

And people do typically frown upon people hijacking a thread as it becomes too convoluted, and it is just much easier to make a new thread with their specifics laid out.

 

[TenaciousTriggerFish]

I think many of people start new threads because they don't want to hijack someone else's thread or be accused of it. Their situation is as unique as the other posts. Somtimes ich occurs at a specific temperature, sometimes it's brought home with the last fish or plant they bought, sometimes it caused by improper nutrition or contaminated water.

I understand the OP's stress too. I desire new information also. Then there's this social networking thing and wanting to be heard.

Yes there is a thought I was failing to express "unique" situations I 100% agree with this post like someone who knows every inch of their tank is much different from me (I don't test water or do water changes) [stay on topic I already know people think I should change my ways] but the other person and I could have completely different causes and need completely different solutions for whatever was wrong

 

[TenaciousTriggerFish]

Articles are posted on the front page of the site, if there isn't something your looking for on the front page there is a search box where you can search for things there. I do wish that there was a section on the app for articles though, that would be wonderful.

Sorry about the unfinished post was at the ER with my dad last night till 10 a little scatterbrained haha but anyways you understood me. A section of frequently asked questions would be perfect right in freshwater and even one in saltwater too!

 

[Convict2161]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. It's honestly how I feel. I'm a Mod on a few bodybuilding and powerlifting forums and I've heard this debate or complaint numerous times.

I just do as I tell the members on the forums I mod to do.

Answer if you feel like it, don't if you don't. I've repeated myself several times in threads and almost sound like a broken record but that's what were here for. Link them to a thread that will answer the questions it send them a link to a help page off of the Internet.

I've asked a lot of questions probably more then twice on this forum and of it wasn't for the patience of some of the membership I wouldn't be as successful as I am today.

Bottom line:

I know it gets frustrating at times but you don't have to answer the thread

You have link the answer from another thread and politely tell the member to search the stickies or maybe more research I needed.

To do it with finesse and move on.

You do the choice to ignore a thread...

Coming from all sides, a newbie at one point a mod and now someone who ha gained some experience through asking lots of questions am getting answers. I do however also urge to google, bing whatever and research themselves,

Just remember they may ready know the answer but need that assurance by someone just saying "yes that's bad" or "your good! Your on the right track"

Just my 2 cents do what it's worth.

 

[kdpuffer]

You guys have some really good insight into the subject. I'm not talking about about unique scenarios however. I'm concerned about the constant aiptasia ID threads. Aiptasia is aiptasia no matter how you look at it and it is treated in a few different ways. I really like the idea of a sticky on aiptasia Id and treatment. I did not start this thread to make people feel stupid or to be ignorant, I started due to what I feel is a valid concern and I'm sure more than just myself gets tired of answer the same question 6 times a day. If a person honestly doesn't know what aiptasia is and starts a thread asking "what is this?" is one thing but if a person asks what something is by name they do know enough to actually look into it a little. I'm not saying we can't help them but I am getting frustrated with seeing a constant stream of people asking for an id by name and causing other peoples issues that may or may not be more serious to be pushed down the list. I think adding a sticky to the Id thread that outlines some common hitchhikers, their reef compatibility as well as some common problems such as ich and how to deal with these things would be a great addition to this forum. This is why I started this thread, well it seems we have a good solution so how do we go about creating a sticky? I would happily help with writing it.

 

[fort384]

Rather than a sticky we would prefer an article for the front page. This could then be linked in the aiptasia threads.

If you would like access to the writers work room let me know. We can make that happen. We are always looking for knowledgeable folks to add content.

 

[Wy Renegade]

I may not have made myself clear, I am not saying that I want to exclude ANYONE from posting. I am simply trying to express an idea where a newer person might better be able to find answers to their questions , supplied by an advanced or newbie hobbyist, if they didn't have to scroll through all the threads. Conversely, the advanced hobbyist wouldn't need to scroll through multiple repetitive threads looking for the info they were looking for either. I can see the plus side to this format as well as the minus so please don't think I am against the way things are. Keep in mind tho that most info received by a "newbie' was gotten via an experienced hobbyist as their source. Under the current format, there is no decernable way for a newbie to know if the info being given on a thread is coming from someone who has "been there, done that" or someone who just likes to see their name on a post. If they read an answer filled with wrong info before the moderator or other member catches it, the damage is already done. Probable outcome: Dead fish. It's a complicated issue, I know.
I got this idea from my schooling. I don't know if schools still teach in this manner but when I was in school, there were prerequisite classes you had to take before you could get into an advanced class of a subject. For example, you couldn't get into Algabra class if you didn't take the basic math class and pass it. You couldn't get into Algabra 2 without going through Algabra 1, etc. Expanding on this format might be a plus for this site. Who knows?

As for the "filling out a resume" I think it WOULD be more helpful to a newbie to know that the info is coming from an experienced member vs. an inexperienced member. I've used this analogy before but I think it still fits: If you wanted to know what it's like on the moon, would you ask Neil Armstrong or the scientists who got him to the moon? No matter how smart the scientist were, Neil has the experience and was there on it so he would know better. Don't you agree?

Just my $.02 worth here. I'm also a member of several other forums, and on one of those forums, they tried something similar to this. End result, nobody uses the advanced section. Why? Not enough participation in those areas. IMO, we don't like stagnat. Speaking for myself, when I get on, I want to see that things have moved, new posts have added, etc. I have something new to read and maybe help with. If all I see when I log on is the same three posts I already looked at, I'm bored and I move on. Its the same factor that can sometimes causes the death of a forum because it has too many subforums, and things are not active enough.

You guys have some really good insight into the subject. I'm not talking about about unique scenarios however. I'm concerned about the constant aiptasia ID threads. Aiptasia is aiptasia no matter how you look at it and it is treated in a few different ways. I really like the idea of a sticky on aiptasia Id and treatment. I did not start this thread to make people feel stupid or to be ignorant, I started due to what I feel is a valid concern and I'm sure more than just myself gets tired of answer the same question 6 times a day. If a person honestly doesn't know what aiptasia is and starts a thread asking "what is this?" is one thing but if a person asks what something is by name they do know enough to actually look into it a little. I'm not saying we can't help them but I am getting frustrated with seeing a constant stream of people asking for an id by name and causing other peoples issues that may or may not be more serious to be pushed down the list. I think adding a sticky to the Id thread that outlines some common hitchhikers, their reef compatibility as well as some common problems such as ich and how to deal with these things would be a great addition to this forum. This is why I started this thread, well it seems we have a good solution so how do we go about creating a sticky? I would happily help with writing it.

Yes and no, what about Manjo nems? Most newer people aren't going to be able to distinguish between the two, and even some coral polyps may appear to be aiptasia to the inexperienced eye. Many of these "duplicate" threads have individual pictures, and for the inexperienced, it is not all that simply to look at somebody else's picture and say, "yep that is what I have for sure."

 

[Uncle Dirty]

We can't just expect them to always "do research " or "google it" they come to this site for help and they are still learning their way around the forum. Give them some time to get used to things around the site and just let them figure it out for themselves. I agree about the multiple thread things , it does get a little annoying! But the thing I'm trying to say is that I also get annoyed with people who have been on here for a while who still post 2-3+ after one another, without the edit button. I understand where your coming from but they are still learning their way around the site. Are you allowed to text type on this site. EG: y r those fish swimming at nite , or: dats just wat those fish do m8 . Thats what annoys me.

Text type, not using periods, bad spelling makes it hard on the brain trying to decipher what they are trying to say. Using "Your" instead of "you're" , also not proof reading before sending post. Sorry to get off topic.