Algae and Anarchy

[Blackwood]

I'm fairly new to planted tanks, so I'm a bit behind the learning curve.

This is what I have.

125 gallon tank
400w CF lights similar to http://www.vividaquariums.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=04-2159
except that mine are two bulbs each in two fixtures attached to the inside of the wooden canopy with reflectors. Both are white lights.
150-300 gallon wet/dry sump filter (yes, it's overfiltered. I'm ok with that). Similar to this http://www.petpromenade.com/images/750-78126.jpg

The overflow is at one end of the tank rather than the middle, with the output coming through the top of the outflow and heavily roiling the surface of the water pointed towards the front line of the tank. No airstone. I have a secondary powerhead at the other end of the tank on the back wall pointing towards the overflow to create a nice circular flow through out the tank.

I have a Co2 compressed air cannister injecting Co2 through a diffuser similar to this one http://www.dewinters.nl/images/zerst.JPG

I've recently gotten a big problem with Black Beard Algae (yes, I'm sure that's what it is) and green fuzz algae. The fuzz algae covers everything, glass, plant leaves, overflow, etc and the BBA is on the driftwood, plants leaves and leaf edges, heater, powerhead, etc...

I know my Phospates are high while my Nitrate is essentially zero. Reading through here I know this is bad and will be address as soon as my local AQ shop gets me some Potassium Nitrate (KN03?).

I have a basic idea of what the imbalance is, but know next to nothing about general planted tank maintenance and balance.

In a 125 gallon tank, what should my Nitrate, PH, Phosphate, etc be?

What's a good but not horribly expensive test kit to use for everything?

Given that I have a realitively light bio load, how often should I do water changes, and how much? I can easily do 25 gallons at a time, but more would take 2 trips. Keep in mind that I bought a bigger filter hoping to minimize this.

Is reverse osmosis water the best to use for this? I understand that it's the cleanest, but what do I need to add to it to keep the balances right? I have 5 5-gallon jugs. Is there a simple dose I can use for each jug added of R/O water?


My Bio Load:
1 Knight Gobi (3 more will be added as soon as everything is balanced again)
1 large Bala shark (2 other 6" ones just died. No idea why)
10 Priselatta Tetra's (I spell it the way I like...
6 Glass cats (2 others just died with the Bala Sharks)
2 Dojo Loaches
4 Long Nose Loaches
2 Spiny Mountain Eels (only get to about 6" max)
4 Black Skirt Tetras
2 Butterly Tetras (look like flounders)
1 Rosy Barb (others just won't stay alive except this single one)
about 5 various other Tetra-ish fish.
None of these fish are large at all except the one 6" Bala Shark and the two Eels and two Dojo Loaches. The rest are 2" or under.

I'll be adding about 10 more fish over all once everything is balanced out, but the overall bio load for a 125G tank will still be fairly low.

I only have 6 plants in it now because everything else has died off. I can't even keep Anachris in there now and that stuff used to grow like weeds in that tank. The only think that's alive are a couple Java Ferns (small ones) and a few broad leaf plants (don't know the names).

I plan on adding a bunch of plants once I get the balance right.

I know this is a ton of info to throw out there and ask for help on, but I have to start somewhere.

I also found that there was a minor natural gas leak from the stove that's been going on for several months. It was just enough that I could just smell it walking into the kitchen where the tank is after the house was closed up all day. I've since had it fixed. Will this effect the tank at all? Yeah, probably a dumb question, but I really don't know how much of the gas will diffuse into the water remotely like that.

Any advice/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Blackwood

 

[czcz]

150-300 gallon wet/dry sump filter (yes, it's overfiltered. I'm ok with that).

Keep in mind that the wet/dry will promote CO2 gas off, and to prevent this you'll need to seal the unit, which will limit/negate it's oxygenation capability. It would be wisest to limit surface agitation in your sump as much as possible to preserve the CO2 you are injecting. FWIW, I've had a much much smaller sump setup, but here are my observations and whats worked well for me: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=63074&

BBA usually indicates inadequate CO2, but with 0 nitrates it's not a valid indicator due to nutrient imbalance.

In a 125 gallon tank, what should my Nitrate, PH, Phosphate, etc be?

Your targets are the same as any sized tank (fertilization sticky) since we go by concentrations. NO3 15-20ppm, PO4 1.5-2ppm, and K at >20ppm are great places to start. Ideal pH is determined by CO2 target (>30ppm, ideally more with your light), and is covered in depth in the CO2 sticky.

Since we care about concentrations, your sump's volume is part of the equation. FYI, with your total volume it would be wisest and much more cost effective to order dry ferts from gregwatson.com than to rely on your local aquarium store.

This is a great guide from a guy (Travis) you should do a post search on for guidance: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?p=411374&

What's a good but not horribly expensive test kit to use for everything?

Given that I have a realitively light bio load, how often should I do water changes, and how much? I can easily do 25 gallons at a time, but more would take 2 trips. Keep in mind that I bought a bigger filter hoping to minimize this.

It is generally recommended you do 50% water changes weekly with the most popular dosing method, but with your volume of water I would bet you have a good amount of stability.

IMO you really have a choice here vs your test kit: you could (1) get a very accurate but expensive set of kits from LaMotte or Hach, test uptake of relevant nutrients, and get dosing for uptake so percise the need for water changes is limited. It would be a good idea to pick up a DOC meter to determine if your water change schedule is appropriate. Or (2) you could use inexpensive, hobby grade test kits and rely on water changes to make up for their inherent inaccuracy. A water change system like one from Python would certainly help.

Is reverse osmosis water the best to use for this? I understand that it's the cleanest, but what do I need to add to it to keep the balances right?

Regardless of method, RO is unnecessary, and tap has lots of micro nutrients your plants can use (and it's cheap). If for some reason you prefer RO (say, your tap has excessive nitrates or hardness or something), you could reconstitute it with SeaChem's Equilibrium or (cheaper) Barr's GH Booster on gregwatson.com, or mix RO with tap. You would also need to keep KH stable with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Really, tap is more than likely fine.

I only have 6 plants in it now because everything else has died off. I can't even keep Anachris in there now and that stuff used to grow like weeds in that tank. The only think that's alive are a couple Java Ferns (small ones) and a few broad leaf plants (don't know the names).

I plan on adding a bunch of plants once I get the balance right.

It would be better to increase plant mass now as much as possible. This will give you a bigger saftey net as you find the balance, and will prepare you for the densely planted tank you're probably looking for. (As plant mass increases, so does uptake.) It would be wise to add more anacharis and undemanding plants if you prefer to acheive the balance before adding harder, more expensive plants, but you should still add some good fast growers to learn with. Good ones are Rotala rotundifolia, "Stargrass," Ludwigia repens, Hygro polysperma variants, "Wisteria," and just about any Bacopa. There are many more options of course.

You'll do well. This is a great place. Welcome to AA

 

[Purrbox]

The Hagen Nutrifin Master Test Kit is a descent kit that contains all the kits you would need for a FW Planted tank. The main ones that you will be using from this kit are NO3, PO4, KH, and pH.

You may want to rethink your filtration. When injecting CO2 into a planted tank, you want to minimize surface agitation to avoid gassing off the CO2. Since you are using pressurized CO2 you may be able to compensate for the CO2 loss by injecting more CO2, but this is a waste that can be avoided. With the amount light that you are running you want to make sure that you are maintaining 30-35ppm CO2 at all times. If you CO2 is fluctuating or lower you will be much more likely to encounter algae problems. In fact I would suspect that this is a major contributor to your BBA problems. For your size tank, most people would probably recommend a canister filter.

Unless your tapwater really horrible, it would be perfectly fine to use in your tank. If you choose to use RO water instead you will want to make sure to treat it with RO Rite or some other additive that replaces the the trace nutrients and minerals that your fish and plants need. A happy medium would be to mix the RO water 50/50 with your tap water. This would help soften your tap water if it's extremely hard while still providing the trace nutrients and minerals for your plants and fish. Most people perform 50% water changes per week with a high light setup. This allows you to reset your water parms and helps to prevent nutrient imbalances. Using your tap water and a python will make your life much easier.

You want to keep your Nitrates at 10-20pmm to 1ppm Phosphates. Potassium should be dosed 10-20ppm each week. You'll also need to dose a good Trace Mix like Flourish Comprehensive, Tropica Master Grow, or CSM+B. You'll have to tweak how often you dose your tank based on how quickly your plants consume the nutrients. There is no affordably priced Potassium kit, so you'll just have to keep an eye out for signs of Potassium deficiency and increase dosing as necessary.

 

[Blackwood]

Hmmm, my local Tropical Fish store owner told me that RO was the only way to go since the nutrients in the tap water are where the algae is getting it's food. Odd. He's not the sort to tell me something just to sell me something at all. I'll pick up a new Python and start 40-50% water changes with tap water each week. Is Amquel enough to deal with the chlorine/chloramine/ammonia in the tap water or do I need something else too?

The sump surface area isn't really that large (maybe 3 square feet total) and is very calm. Where the water dumps into the sump is sealed at the top. The big problem would be the overflow. The water flows over the top of it in one side of the tank, then drops 18" to the drain in the bottom. I usually keep a stand pipe in it to fill the overflow up to within 4" of the top. With that, there isn't a ton of agitation in the overflow to outgas the C02. Without the stand pipe though, it's probably outgassing 90%+ of the C02.

Any recommendations for a C02 diffuser for my size tank? The one I have I've seen recommended for 25-50 gallon tanks. Would a reactor be better? I can put one inline with the output of my sump pump, or just have a separate powerhead for it. Right now I have the diffuser bubbles flowing into the intake of the powerhead so the gas is ciruculated through the tank with the water stream from the powerhead. I have the powerhead set so that it just barely roils the surface, not much at all. It's mainly there for circulation. I use the sump pump outflow as the main 'surface agitator' for oxygenation.

What do I use to measure PPM for C02?

I greatly appreciate all the help I'm getting here.


Blackwood

 

[czcz]

It's a rather old thought that starving algae is the way to beat it in a planted tank. Modern thought is that its best to feed the plants, then allow then to outcompete the algae. There's something to be said for using RO since you can reconstitute it with known values for all elements, but you'll see many successful low-algae tanks that use straight tap while avoiding the hassle of RO. After dechlor with Amquel, tap isn't really all that different from reconstituted RO, specific levels aside. There's enough to tackle with macro and micro nutrients, and most micro/trace mixes (such as those listed by Purrbox) assume you have the elements common to tap (Ca and Mg, for example).

I think a reactor would be the best option for diffusing CO2, and would suggest putting it inline with the sump output. You could do this with a chamber filled with bioballs, or just inject immediately after the pump and see how good diffusion rates are. I'm sure the folks here with big tanks will have good recommendations once they read this thread.

You can figure out CO2 levels by measuring KH and pH of the tank and referencing the charts or calculator in the CO2 sticky. Here is a good one online that includes the pH/KH/CO2 table and a calculator: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm It is recommended you also measure KH and pH of tap water that has been sitting in a glass for 24 hours, so you get a baseline reading and ensure there is no buffer that breaks the pH/KH/CO2 relationship, as explained by Chuck Gadd's site.

(After posting your KH and pH of rested tap, members here can tell you if there's a secondary buffer that makes the CO2 chart inapplicable, in which case you can infer CO2 levels by pH drop and algae/plant health.)

Once you increase plant mass and keep them growing, you can depend on them for oxygenation while limiting surface agitation in the main to preserve CO2, by the way. There is something to be said for using the powerhead or an airstone to agitate the water surface at night (when plants do not produce O2), though.

 

[Purrbox]

I agree that an Inline Reactor would definately be a great choice for improving the CO2 injection in your tank. The CO2 Reactor 1000 would be a good option if your looking to buy otherwise these instructions work great if you want to build your own.

If you want to calculate CO2 on your own the formula is CO2 (in PPM) = 3 * dKH * 10^( 7-PH ). Chuck's Calculator is also really great for all the other calculations to determine how much dry ferts to dose. If you find out that there are other buffers in you water invalidating the KH/pH relationship, then this article provides an alternative menthod of calculation.

 

[Blackwood]

Hmmm, a planted tank is definitely more work than I have time for. As much as I love it when it's healthy, keeping it that way requires more time than I have right now.

Now the question is, how do I get rid of the algae after getting rid of the plants? I only have a few healthy-ish plants, so those are easy to get rid of. How do I get the algae that's left over without the plants to eat up the nutrients? Am I sort of stuck with a planted tank now?


Blackwood

 

[Purrbox]

That's really too bad. It sounds like you have most of the equipment you would need already in place, and with the right ferts and test kits on hand you could probably get things sorted out in relatively short order.

To get rid of the algae you would want to switch back to standard lighting and limit how long the lights are on to 8 hours, maybe even less. You'll want to try to get the Nitrates and Phosphates as close to zero as possible. Water changes will help you out here as long as you don't have them in your tap water. You'll also want to make sure that you don't overfeed the fish, as this can also cause an excess of Nitrates and Phosphates.

You could also try a three day black out followed by large water change to kill and remove the algae. The blackout could work whether you decided to stick with plants or go to unplanted as a quick fix to get rid of algae. The long term fix is balanced nutrients in a planted tank, or minimized nutrients in a non planted tank.

If you do decide to stick with plants, a lot of fast growing stem plants like the ones that czcz suggested will help your plants get the upper hand over the algae, especially in these early stages as you work to get your tank established.

 

[czcz]

Also, halving your light to 200watts CF will make the tank much easier to manage and is more than enough for Java Fern and Anacharis, and enough for the plants mentioned previously. High levels of CO2 will also be much less important. Medium light tanks are cool, and with pressurized CO2 and light dosing you're going to have a nice planted tank. Even with 100watt CF, you should be able to grow low light plants, and again even low/unstable CO2 will only help.