Algae Destroying: Using Excel/Bleach/Peroxide to KILL

[7Enigma]

Algae

I'm looking for success and horror stories using large dosing (3-6X) of Flourish Excel, hydrogen peroxide, or bleach to kill off unwanted algae. Most notably I'm interested in battling BBA/staghorn that survived a 3 day blackout in my 20gallon tank.

Please post your experiences.

For those that don't know what Excel is: It is a liquid carbon source that will supply your plants the carbon they need to grow in higher light situations. This is very important since if not enough carbon is available, but all the other nutrients for plant growth are, you will most likely have an algae outbreak.

But it also apparently has a secondary use as an algae killer. Under elevated dosing, it will kill several types of algae. My concerns lie with the trade-off of killing algae, and harming my fish (and to some extent my plants).

 

[gheitman]

I'd be curious to know of peoples' experiences as well. I have some black brush algae in a 29g tank that I'd like to get rid of.

 

[JohnPaul]

29g planted tank here, been set up 2+ years, right now my driftwood and most of the plants are covered with what I think is a combo of BBA and tufts of green-colored algae.

After reading about OD-ing on Excel as a solution, I thought I'd try it out. 5 days in a row I've given a 3x dose of excel.

Result so far: no noticable change whatsoever.

I'll keep you posted as I continue the regimin over the next few days.

EDIT: a little more about my tank

-- moderately planted currently, over the years it has varied between moderately and heavily planted depending upon my mood and upon how many of my plants were surviving. Main plants right now are a large sword (kinda a centerpiece plant), large patch of crypt. balansae in one back corner, large patch of crypt. spiralis (?) in the other back corner. A few smaller plants smattered throughout.

-- lighting is 3 standard fluorescent bulbs, so that's 51W (1.75 WPG). The tank also gets maybe an hour or two of direct sunlight early each morning (I know that's really bad, but unavoidable and not something I will be able to change).

-- Eco-complete as substrate, normally a very minimal fertilizing regimin (excel only), and no CO2.

 

[7Enigma]

That's exactly the type of story I'm interested in. In your situation, it seems like you have accumulated 10 TIMES the normal amount of Excel in your tank (unless the plants are using that much, which is probably unlikely with your light level). That's a HUGE amount of Excel sitting in your tank and not seeing a difference would have me worried I'm harming the fish.

I have posted in another thread in the planted forum another question which I'm awaiting an answer. That would be, can the algae be dead, but still ON the leaves. Specifically BBA, can it be dead, but still look normal on the leaves until it would slowly decompose or get eaten?

So many of the blackout success stories sound like the algae just dissapears into the water column, but my sole blackout experience was not anything like that.

Keep up the good stories, and please post back JohnPaul with your updates.

As an aside:

I read an article recently that was posted here or on another forum about using hydrogen peroxide as a treatment for algae. It seemed EXTREMELY affective, *however*, it also did SERIOUS damage to some of the plants, and one person lost all their fish.

Apparently it is very reactive to the algae and will kill virtually on contact (by oxidizing the algae from the released oxygen), but will also oxidize the fish's gills, and the plant leaves.

One experiment I'd like to try if this current blackout and Excel doesn't work is to correct what I see as being the underlying problem with using peroxide.

It is extremely reactive and damaging to everything in the tank. So while most people are using a turkey baster or other piece of equipment to apply directly to the algae and then allowing the peroxide to stay in the tank (it ultimately becomes water and oxygen), I thought of a different method that should be much safer:

Turn off ALL filters, powerheads, etc. We need virtually NO water flow in the tank. Drop algae tabs or scare the he// out of the fish to get them away from the infected plant. Using a gravel vac, get the suction going and then kink the hose so that its not sucking any water out (but will as soon as you release the kink). Now apply the peroxide as other's have directly to the leaves of the plant that are affected. Wait 20-30seconds (apparently from what I've read this reaction occurs and kills almost immediately). As soon as the time is up release the kink in the gravel vac and suck all of the water from and around the plant that was treated.

Here's my theory behind this modified procedure:

-If you treat only the areas needed you won't damage the rest of the plant.

-If you suck out the peroxide after treatment it cannot cause any damage to the fish or other tank inhabitants...duhh

Seems to me like this would be difficult to do solo, so I'd get a friend or spouse to help out. Maybe do a dry run first so no one messes up.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Thebluyak]

it depends how much it spread out in the water, I would test it first with food coloring to see how far out the liquid will spread once disperesed into the water. take a turkey baster or whatever you would use and eject the food coloring (mock peroxide) onto the algea and see how far it spreads out and what it comes in contact with. Atleast then you can get an idea of how far out the H2O2 will spread out.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

One thing you may want to consider about OD'ing on Excel, not sure if it will harm the fish, but I believe it's use in excess can cause harm to the biofilter. But if you are fairly heavily planted, then it may not concern you too much, but still need to test to be sure nothing spikes on you while dosing the excess Excel.

One thing I did with my driftwood with java moss on it, it was full of crud, which some think it's BGA, but it doesn't stink and is not slimy. I'm more inclined it's BBA. I dipped the driftwood with java moss on it in a 5G bucket with dechlored water and about 1/4 bottle of Excel (Since I have so much extra), and let it soak for 5 minutes. Then placed it directly back into the tank without rinsing. The algae that was there is now almost completely gone, and the java moss growth has exploded.

 

[IceH2O]

I didn't plan the OD of Excel, it just happened.

I had the 2L bottle and at the time the label had directions from the 750 ml bottles,which has a 5 ml cap the 2L has a 10 ml cap.

The intial dosing that your "supposed" to do after each water change,1 capful for every 10 gallons then daily 1 cap for every 50 gallons.

So according to the directions on the bottle in my 75 I put:

7 caps for initial dose which is 70 ml then daily would be 15 ml. A weekly total of 160 ml.

If the directions were correct it would be initial dose 35 ml and daily 7.5 ml for a total of 80 ml.

I myself just dose 10 ml daily and my tank is doing great. I just don't trust that initial dose.

When I did the accidental overdose my biofilter was damaged and I went thru a week long daily pwcs to keep the Am and Ni under 1.

I've read people that say they do it all the time with no bad affect. It could depend on factors like KH as I have low KH.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I've read people that say they do it all the time with no bad affect. It could depend on factors like KH as I have low KH.

It will also depend on plant mass. If more heavily planted, then you may not even see any ill-effects and ammonia or nitrite, as the plants will use it all.

 

[czcz]

I dosed 4mL of Excel into ~15gal every other day for about a month and killed fuzz, BBA, and thread algae. I did not spot treat and just dumped it into the tank. I kept Psuedomugil gertrudae (Spotted Blue-eye Rainbowfish), Kuhlii loaches, a Hillstream loach, Otocinclus, and shrimp at the time and no one died during the period or the month afterwards. I was using plants as biofilters, and did not use filter media. I did 50% water changes and was just becoming comfortable with EI at the time.

This is what my algae typically looked like.

6/7/05 -- this is after spending an hour or so cleaning up algae. Notice it on the P. stellata and L. repens especially.

6/22/05 -- first day with Excel. After a big clean, trimming, and rearrangement.

6/26/05 -- Trimmed again. Harder to notice algae.

7/4/05 -- No more algae, but Excel is sweet so keep using it.

7/10/05

Here's a closeup of that R. rotundifolia:

Before using Excel I would trim severely but then algae would grow back. After this experience I focussed on CO2 and algae became only a nuissance in that tank. I found it much easier to focus on plant health after killing the algae, and after focussing on the plants found it easier to limit algae.

 

[7Enigma]

Thanks all, this is great information. With the dye issue, I realize that I won't be able to get every last bit up, but would be willing to bet the majority would be captured. It all comes back to the tank currents, which is why I recommended turning off all filters/powerheads. One thing I didn't think of however would be the affects of the peroxide's density on the tank water. A small experiment I can try now would be to do a PWC, and using that tank water spike in some peroxide that has been dyed. My concern is after spot treatment if the peroxide quickly rises to the surface, or sinks to the substrate. In that case my gravel vac idea would need to be modified to make sure I "trap" the peroxide in a small space. One thought if it was heavier and sank would be to use a small dish below the leaf being treated to catch the peroxide as it fell. If its less dense and rises (my guess would be this), thats more difficult since its tough to angle the vac upwards in the tank.

I'm going to give 1 more week of normal routinue to see if the algae present reduces, if not, I just may be the g-pig to test this one out.

 

[Jchillin]

FWIW, czcz and I have been talking and he has convinced me to (cheat) use it in my low-light tank. If it works well in high light, I can only imagine what it will do in low-light. My BBA isn't prevalent but it is becoming an eyesore.

 

[Purrbox]

I've never done more than a minor over dose of Flourish Excel in my tanks, only about 2 times the recommended amount. At this level there was little to no affect on the aglae present in the tank.

What did work was removing the Anubias Nana from the tank and then brushing the Flourish Excel directly onto its leaves. Within a day there was a noticable color change in the the algae, and then within the next few days the various pond snails etc would clean the leaves spotlessly. No harm to the Anubias other than some damage due to being covered by the algae to long. Of course when the nutrient levels are still out of balance the algae comes back within a few weeks.

 

[7Enigma]

Thanks Purrbox for the anecdotal evidence. I'm beginning to develop a possible strategy from the stories so far that I'll make a large detailed post when I get comfortable with its presentation. I'm still waiting to see how my tank turns out. I'm almost hoping the BBA doesn't clear up so I can force myself to try the modified peroxide treatment....

Unfortunately for unexplained reasons my timer on my tank sometimes turns off during the day when its not supposed too. I got home from work today and the tank light was off (it was on when I left for work), so I'm guessing since 10am (lights go on from 6:15am to 10am, off until 1pm, then on until 10pm) the lights have been out.

I'm also seriously in need of a major trim in the tank, but I wanted the highest amount of plant load to compete away the algae, but it might be getting a bit too much as the lower plants are being shadowed by the plants near the surface.

Keep the stories coming!

 

[Guest]

i dont know if this is the right algae to treat with peroxide, but i tried it anyways. i took this plant and placed it in a bucket of water with peroxide mixed in and let it soak for a while. the next day there was no change. then i took it out of the tank again and poured straight peroxide on the plant and rubbed it in. today it is still as it was yesterday.

 

[7Enigma]

From what I've read it will kill virtually on contact, but then take a bit to actually disappear. The one site I had read about this on said that the BBA turned a bright pink color 2days later and then was either eaten by the fish that had previously not touched it, or it disintegrated.

Give it a bit of time.

What I'd like to know though was how much peroxide did you use, how much water was in the bucket, did it fizz when you put it on, did you spot treat it the first time or just dump some in the bucket and mix, and most importantly, HOW OLD WAS THE PEROXIDE.

Generally peroxide should be discarded 30days after opening, and thats only if it has been tightly closed. I brush my teeth with peroxide so always have a pretty fresh bottle around, but if its been sitting in a cabinet for a while it has probably lost its oxidizing affects.

I'm sure since its an oxidizer, peroxide plays no favorites against algae, it will kill without distinction, so I'm sure the brush algae (looks like it on your plant) would be just as damaged as the BBA (if not more so since BBA tends to be thicker and thus have LESS surface area for the peroxide to act). If you could take a picture every day for the next couple that would be great to see if it changes color/disappears.

Thanks again for doing this test.

justin

EDIT: I'm beginning to think after looking at your pic again that the peroxide was bad. The color of the algae does look like it might be damaged, but I would have expected to see physical plant damage to the leaves if you brushed the straight (3% right?) peroxide on the leaves.

 

[Codefox]

I'm going to try the excel idea on my tank. Whenever I try and use ferts, I end up getting algae starting up. I'll try just going heavy with Excel for a week or so and see what happens. I have very small amounts of BBA...not enough to really bother me and its never really spread at all. Interested to see if it works.

 

[Guest]

oops, it's old. i never thought about how old peroxide is. i just grabbed the bottle next to the alcohol, i didnt think this stuff ever wore out. i'll get a new bottle today then redo what i did previously.

 

[7Enigma]

oops, it's old. i never thought about how old peroxide is. i just grabbed the bottle next to the alcohol, i didnt think this stuff ever wore out. i'll get a new bottle today then redo what i did previously.

Be careful with it. From what I've read it doesn't take much (2-4oz in a 20gallon was one of the methods I read), any more and you might damage the plants. I would mix it in the bucket and then add the plant in, and would keep an eye on what happens. If you start to see the leaves of the plant bubbling I'd get the plant in new water ASAP!

 

[czcz]

aquarious, which plant is that? If it is not aquatic -- it looks like Mondo Grass to me -- the algae isn't your fault and you should ditch the plant.

 

[Guest]

i dont know what kind of plant it is. i got it from petsmart in their plant tank, well, i got 3 of them. the only thing they have ever done is grow hairy algae. i am now going to commence hydrogen peroxide upon it. ill try it out as stated above.

edit:

i added 4 capfuls of 'new' h2o2 to 5 gal of old pwc water and put the plant in. i saw no bubbles. i sweltered and swooshed it around to make sure it got the peroxide treatment. after 5 minutes i removed and put it back in the 5 gal tank it was in. at this time, it still looks the same.