Algae issues with plants

[AdamHorton]

I have a 20G planted freshwater tank, stocked with 5 zebra danios, 6 Blue Neon Tetras, 6 Black Neon Tetras, an albino pleco, a guppy fry, a few ghost shrimp, and some snails. Everything seemed to be going fine for a while until the last couple of weeks when the plants stopped growing and algae started growing. Here's a picture:

http://www.adamhorton.com/files/flog/freshalgae.jpg

The algae is starting to grow also on that java fern, which until now was the only plant really doing well, but now even that is having some trouble. For substrate I have flourite underneath a layer of that red gravel (can't remember what it's called, but I remember buying the good stuff). For lighting I have a 20W Flora-Glo running 12 hours each day.

I took some measurements last night:

Nitrate: 0 ppm (yeah, zero. It usually was around 10 or so but it's 0 now)
Phosphate: between 0.5 - 1

I don't really know anything about keeping aquatic plants -- I've read some of the articles here about it, but they're a little too general for me to figure out what's really going on here. Any suggestions?

 

[jsoong]

In a planted tank - zero nitrate is bad! Plants need nitrates (or other nitrogen source) to grow, without it, they die.

Where is the phosphate coming from? If you are adding ferts. (not strictly necessary in a low light tank like yours), you have an imbalance. You usually want something like 10 Nitrate to 1 phosphate in your tank. Having more phosphate than nitrate is a recipe for algae.

 

[AdamHorton]

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for actually giving me numbers, it helps me a lot.

I haven't really added anything at all to the tank in terms of fertilizers, other than when I added the layer of Flourite, which was around 6 months ago, probably a little more. I bought the Phosphate test kit yesterday so I really don't know what previous levels were, maybe it's always been there -- is that an OK level for phosphates?

So I need more nitrates -- does that mean I need to stock my tank with more fish? I would think I'm at the upper level of what I can have comfortably in that tank. Filtration-wise I'd probably be OK though, I use two AquaClear 20's. Are there other ways to get nitrates that might be better?

Plant growth wasn't exactly fantastic before when I had the nitrates, which I think is due to lighting. For this tank, should I be using more light, like 40W? I don't think there is such a thing as a 24" 40W flourescent light bulb.

...then again I may just take everything out the tank except for the java fern.

 

[JustOneMore20]

I wouldn't add any more fish. I would pick up some Flourish nitrogen. Its a liquid nitrogen fertilizer. Just follow the instructions on the bottle...except you will want to add it maybe 3 times a week.

As far as lighting goes, you could definitely add another 20w bulb if you can fit a second fixture over the tank. 24" regular fluoro bulbs are going to be 20w....only way to get 40w is to get a double fixture. That might contribute to the algae issues, but it could help the plants grow faster as well, which would help the algae issue. Kind of a catch 22.

If it were me, I'd add another 20w bulb, start dosing some nitrogen, and add more stem plants like the Anacharis/Elodea that I see in your picture. You could add more Java fern too if you wanted.

Your phosphate level is fine. 1ppm is about the most you want though.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Something i have had to deal with once i upped my lighting from a single 15w fixture over each 10g to a 2x32w shop light over both was algae of all sorts... green, black, brown, you name it, i had it. Somebody on here recommended (i think it may have been jsoong) breaking up the photo period. i now run my lights for 4 hours, turn them off for 4 hours, run them 4 hours, then turn them off for the day. I have no algae now. Aside from getting your parameters in line, that is the best suggestion i can give anybody with algae problems

 

[AdamHorton]

I'll break up the photo period and see if that helps.

I stopped by Petsmart and all they had was Nutrafin Plant Gro. It mentions that it has "Water Soluble Nitrogen (Chelating agent)" is that the right stuff?

 

[mfdrookie516]

the cheapest ferts are dry ferts. Im going to be ordering some soon. Seachems Flourish products are the best liquid ferts from what ive heard. Ive used some of the cheaper tetra brand ferts with little to no results. Your best bet is to order ferts online, whether its liquid or dry. You can get the flourish line alot cheaper online than you can in stores too

 

[timwag2001]

ferts are ferts. when you buy liquid ferts of any kind you are paying for the "name brand", shipping, water, and plastic bottles. buy the ferts dry and do a little research and you will save a ton of money.

is this the product that you bought? Nutrafin Plant Gro Aquatic Plant Essential Micro-Nutrients - Live Plant Care - Fish - PetSmart

look on the front of the bottle of any fert and you will see a three digit number in the form of 0-0-0 (N-P-K). in this case you will see 0.15-0-0. this means that you are dosing .15% Nitrate - 0% Phosphate - 0% Potassium.
n-p-k are your macro nutrients. and as you can see there arent any phosphate or potasium.

Nutrafin Plant Gro does however contain your micros. they are important but not on the same scale as the macros.

 

[jsoong]

The most effective way to add nitrates would be dry fertilizer - in your case I'd add KNO3 (potassium nitrate). That will take care of both the nitrogen & potassium to balance out your phosphate.

You may find KNO3 at a local hydroponics or pond supply store. <I got 1/4 lb for something like $2.> It will last you years & certainly much cheaper than the liquid stuff. <Your liquid fert has 0.15% nitrogen ... KNO3 is around 14% N & 40% K.>

You have a low light setup, and adding more light certainly can help the plants grow. As others has mentioned, you will need to play around with light & ferts to get a balance so there is minimum algae & maximum plant growth.

 

[timwag2001]

spectracide stump remover is also kno3. you can get it at lowes

 

[AdamHorton]

timwag: that link is the stuff I have. It seems like they wanted you to treat the water with it once and with each water change, which doesn't really seem like it's going to help long-term, so these dry fertilizers seem like a good option on top of this Nutrafin thing.

If I use a dry fertilizer, I'm guessing it would go underneath my gravel substrate? That would probably be fine for the rooted plants, but there's a java fern I'm trying to attach to some driftwood (it's actually the main thing I want to save, since it seems to be doing the best). Will the nitrate make it into the water for that plant?

I'll probably make a lowe's run later today to see if I can pick up som KNO3

 

[jsoong]

No, you dose the dry fert into the water. <You put ferts in the gravel using root tabs ... but you should not need that with flourite for a year or more.>

Depending on your tank size as to how best to dose the ferts. For small tanks, it is best to make your own liquid solution & add that. <Basically, you are making your Seachem Nitrogen on the cheap!> For big tanks, it is easy enough to dissolve a measured amount in a bit of tank water & add that in.

For your reference:
1 teaspoon of KNO3 in 80 gal (my tank) will add 11 ppm of NO3 & 7.5 ppm of K.

You can add 1/4 teaspoon for your tank to get to around 10ppm.... Good starting point for a weekly dose <suggest you split that up into 2-3 doses ... once every couple days.> Then monitor the tank & see how much N your plants are using.

Alternative is to make your own solution. Eg add 1 teaspoon to 10 ml of water, then dose 0.5 ml every other day (2 ppm). You can make whatever concentration is convenient.

Some reading on how to dose ferts:
The Estimative Index of Dosing, or No Need for Test Kits
EI light: for those less techy folks

 

[timwag2001]

what he said

 

[AdamHorton]

Just dosed the stump remover into the tank for the first time. I'll update with how things go. Thanks for the advice.

 

[timwag2001]

just make sure that it is spectracide stump remover

 

[AdamHorton]

 

[timwag2001]

cool

 

[AdamHorton]

Yeah I had to convince myself that I wanted to put something called "stump remover" in my fish tank, but I read what it does and it made sense. All of the fish are still alive

 

[AdamHorton]

Update: after a week, the nitrates were down to zero. I tried adding twice as much KNO3 this time. I was thinking about trying a blackout for a couple of days, is that a good idea?

 

[AdamHorton]

Another update:

Week 1: added 1/4 tsp of the Spectracide. One week later, nitrates were back to zero (this was my last post)

Week 2: added 1/2 tsp Spectracide, did a blackout for about 2-3 days. One week later, nitrates were around 5 ppm and the algae was cut back considerably (probably from the blackout). I trimmed the java fern down, trying to get rid of the parts that were covered in algae. I also re-attached it to the driftwood.

Week 3: Added another 1/2 tsp of Spectracide. Things are gradually getting better in the tank, and now that the photo period is regular again (broken up into two short photo periods/day), the albino pleco is starting to act like himself again, he isn't quite as shy. I forgot to do a nitrate test before I added the stuff (oops) but it seemed like it was starting to run out towards the end.

Next weekend I will do before/after nitrate tests when I add the Spectracide, and hopefully the tank will look good enough that I won't be embarassed to take a picture of it. Still no signs of life from that sword plant in the back, though.