Ammonia levels??

[Ladeia3]

I am getting seriously confused by ammonia levels now. I am testing twice daily with the API freshwater master test kit. These are my results both before and after a water change. This particular test was taken 10 mins after doing a 50% water change.




Before I started using Prime and Stability, after a water change, my ammonia levels would significantly decrease. Now they remain the same. I got the Ammonia alert to see if that would help. I've had it on for almost three days.



So far this has been the result. Am I doing something wrong? Am I concerned over nothing? I've been doing daily water changes of 25-50%. The fish showed signs of stress and three died after switching to using Prime and Stability. I've switched back to using API stress coat and quick start and the fish have returned to normal behavior.

Any ideas, advice, etc?

Thanks

 

[Ladeia3]

Tested 2 hours after a 40% water change. I had tested the ammonia right before the water change. I can see no noticeable difference in color before and after the water change on the ammonia. I didn't test the others before the water change. Here is a pic of the test results after the water change.



Is this normal? Do I need to be doing something else? Is this a case of user error or am I missing something?

 

[libertybelle]

what tank is this in, how long has it been running etc. We need tank details to help. Small false positives are possible after using some water conditioners but thats not small.

Also I can't tell from the picture, but the ammonia alert looks like it still has the plastic on it. obviously it won't work if it still has the plastic on it

 

[Ladeia3]

what tank is this in, how long has it been running etc. We need tank details to help. Small false positives are possible after using some water conditioners but thats not small.

Also I can't tell from the picture, but the ammonia alert looks like it still has the plastic on it. obviously it won't work if it still has the plastic on it

Ooops, okay plastic is off now. It wouldn't come off when I first took it out of the package and made the assumption it was supposed to stay. It is off now and reading .05ppm ammonia but the ammonia test from api still reads extremely high.

Details - First off, yes I'm one of those stupid newbies who basically walked into a store and bought everything and set it up and added fish within 24 hours. I have a friend who has had a 15 gallon fish tank for years. I basically listened to her advice and vague memories of my teen years when I had a fish tank. After I got the tank, I started doing my research and realized I had done everything wrong. My friend is also one of those people who doesn't do water changes, has never checked the ammonia, ph, nitrite or nitrate levels and doesn't even know what those are. She got a tank, stuffed 4 tetras, 1 common pleco, 1 pictus catfish and some fiddler crabs in there and they have against all odds survived.

Tank is a Marineland 55 gallon kit with an additional Aqueon 55/75 filter and added fluval ammonia removing filter added to each. I also added the old filter media from my friend's tank to the marineland filter on it's second day of running. The tank was set up on Dec 30 and fish added the 31st.

There are currently 8 zebra danios, 4 tiger barbs (started with 6, the other two died shortly after I started using prime/stability and the tank's temperature spiked to 82 degrees farenheit), 4 platys (started with 6, also died after I started using P&S), 3 black mollies, 1 common pleco (who I will be rehoming soon), 2 horned nerite snails (which I was able to visually confirm were still alive this afternoon), 2 emerald corys (started with 3, but the 3rd one died while in another tank), 1 pictus catfish and 1 neon tetra (started with 6, 1 died in another tank, 1 died in this tank, and the others have just disappeared. I'm assuming they died and/or were eaten), and there may or may not still be 2 fiddler crabs in there. I haven't seen them in days but I also haven't found bodies so I don't know if they are just hiding, escaped or died and their bodies haven't shown up yet.

Most of the fish were picked by my friend and I just paid for them. All but the snails and corys were bought at Walmart. The tetras and corys were originally in a different tank (10 gallon) but after they kept dying I moved them into the bigger tank and they (the corys) seem to be thriving better there. The mollies were in another 10 gallon by themselves but I moved them to the bigger tank so I could rehome a betta that was in a too small tank.

The substrate is gravel and there are a few live plants in there. Most though will have to be taken out eventually because they are not actual aquatic plants (all were bought from Petco, some were even housed in an aquarium). There is one long air stone and one bubbler going in the tank. When I started the tank, I used API stress coat and quick start. After I realized I had gone about this all wrong, I used the rec of someone on another board and started using Prime and Stability. Before I started using them, ammonia would spike but after a water change, the ammonia level would go down. After I started using them, I'm seeing no change in ammonia levels before and after water changes. The seachem site recommended getting the ammonia alert because it only detects the harmful ammonia unlike the api test.

So that was an extremely long ramble, basically I'm trying to prevent more fish deaths and looking to see if I'm not doing something right or missing a step or whatever or to see if there is something I can be doing to help the situation.

Thanks

Edited to add: Just did a water change. I left the hose siphoning out water and I just refilled as it got lower. I replaced about 40 gallons of water. I also used the gravel vacuum and added Prime to the water. Test results again came out: 0 - Nitrites, Ammonia looks about 1, and the Nitrates could be 0 but it looks slightly orangey to me just not enough to be 5 which is the next level after zero.

 

[libertybelle]

your instinct is right on the water changes, with a cycling tank that is really the best you can do! Prime will also detoxify the ammonia in the tank for about 24 hours which will keep your fish safe until the next water change.

The ammonia alert is telling you that even though the total ammonia is very high, some of it has been detoxified at present (probably due to using prime). You still want to get that number down to 0 ideally, but that's why all your fish aren't dead ... which they would be if all that ammonia was in its more toxic form.

You may have done this but I also highly suggest a very thorough gravel vac and moving all the decor. Fish do eat dead fish but that's a lot of missing fish to have vanished so quickly. If one or two of them are wedged in a piece of decor somewhere that can be exacerbating your ammonia problem. You'd be surprised where they can end up, so look VERY closely to make sure there are no dead fish 'hiding' anywhere!

Also while you are dealing with this only feed sparingly every other day. The ammonia will damage your fish more than hunger will. They'll be fine, even for days, without food.

 

[libertybelle]

The benefit of using prime is that it can detoxify the ammonia but it doesn't actually remove it from the system... so your beneficial bacterial colony can still be growing by eating it up without it hurting your fish! You can also overdose prime temporarily to provide some protection against the toxic ammonia. In fact I might start double dosing prime anytime your ammonia alert is still reading anything over 0.

You should be aiming to keep the total ammonia below 2ppm but checking the ammonia alert to ensure that it is neutralized at all times. That may require daily water changes for a while.

you may have made some common mistakes but you're doing everything you can to fix it so I'm sure you'll get this sorted out! Just takes time!

 

[peacelizard]

I was stupid and added one too many fish recently and lost my cycle, so I'm in a similar pickle as you.

I would keep dosing with Prime for whatever tank size. Same with Stability. Water changes are also very important. Whatever % water change you do, it should reduce your levels by that much. You might have to do changes every day until it gets better (and you want to save whatever fish are left).

Also, don't tweak if even after you get your ammonia to 0 ppm, your nitrites spike. You're still establishing the Nitrogen cycle in your tank and once the Type A beneficial bacteria munched on the ammonia and turned it into nitrites, now the second set of bacteria has to get to work. And same deal applies. Prime and water changes. That's the only thing that's gonna work

 

[Ladeia3]

Alright, thanks for the advice. I will keep up with the water changes. I was just hoping there was something else I could do to help or that I was doing something wrong so I could fix it.

Later today when I do my daily water change, I will move everything and thoroughly vacuum the gravel and check for any hiding dead fish. Would it be too much stress on the fish to change out the gravel for sand since I'm going to be moving everything around anyway? Or should I put that off until a much later date? I got a bunch of sand I was planning on changing out the gravel for but haven't done it because I haven't wanted to stress the fish out more than they already are.

Also, I actually saw an improvement in the api ammonia test results this morning. The last few days, they've been spiking to 2 and over. This morning, it was at 1. I even retested thinking I had done it wrong. The ammonia alert shows about half way between the yellow and pale green so lower than what it was yesterday. Still no nitrites and nitrates is still a dark yellow color that isn't quite orange.

 

[Ladeia3]

Welllll.... I had apparently not been cleaning the gravel well enough. That was disgusting. I now know why my ammonia was so freaking high. Yikes. I went ahead and replaced the gravel with sand and did a 70% water change. After everything settles I'll do another water change but I just wanted to get everything up and running to clear up the remaining water because it was pretty gross (could not see through it gross). I did find the partially decomposed bodies of the neon tetras in the catfish's lair and got those out. Still haven't found the crabs. Don't know if they got scooped up with the gravel or what. I only found one of the snails so I'm hoping the other one isn't in the bucket of gravel. I'll go looking through there shortly to see if I can find any missing critters. Did get out some kind of insect thing that I'm pretty sure didn't belong in the tank. Ewww...

Anyway, I hope that helps the situation some.

 

[peacelizard]

I think we've all been there in the beginning (and currently!) when it looks like the end of the world because it looks like a plague of insects is getting sucked up in the gravel vac lol

 

[libertybelle]

Yeah getting those bodies out will make a big difference! However do be aware that you may have removed some of your beneficial bacteria when you removed the gravel. So test often and keep your eye on those ammonia/nitrite levels! Ideally you should do water changes (or perhaps just dose with prime) until the ammonia alert reads 0. It's ok for there to be total ammonia in the tank, that's what will feed your beneficial bacteria, but you want to minimize the free ammonia as much as possible.

Do you have plants in the tank? If not you could turn off the lights to help the fish deal with the stress of this. If you do have plants you could just keep them on for the minimum time.

 

[libertybelle]

Also while it will clear up some as everything settles, but don't be concerned if it stays a little white milky cloudy. That's your beneficial bacteria bloom and is totally normal while cycling.

What kind of filter do you have? If you have a hang on back you could probably add some filter floss to the filter to help clear up the mess faster. (You can get it cheap in the crafts section of walmart!) Then when you remove that, it will remove another source of ammonia.

 

[Ladeia3]

Yes there are a few plants in the tank but some of them will have to be removed soon because they are not aquatic plants. I plan to add more plants in the future.

I am currently running two filters. One came with the kit and is a marineland penguin 350. The other is an aqueon 55/75 filter . I also got the fluval ammonia remover media to add to both filters.

 

[Ladeia3]

I have visible levels of Nitrite and Nitrate!!! Yayy! Okay, so I'm probably more excited over this than is warranted but I was really beginning to worry about not getting any at all.





The ammonia alert only shows the first level alert. I started these tests and then did a 40% water change before I saw the results. Granted the nitrites are barely turning purple even though the shade doesn't match any on the sheet but at least it is no longer blue. It is kinda hard to see but it looks like ammonia is between 1 & 2ppm, the nitrites are between 0 and .25ppm and the nitrates look to be between 5 and 10ppm.

 

[libertybelle]

yay, cycling progress. You should still be aiming to keep that ammonia alert at 0 since that's the toxic 'portion' of the ammonia reading. I'd still recommend double dosing prime to provide some ammonia/nitrite protection to your livestock

 

[Ladeia3]

The ammonia alert is actually almost completely yellow right now. It has a slight greenish tint to it but it more yellow than green.

I did OD Prime the other day. I'll do it again in another day or two. I just wanted to let it clear out some before I did it again.

All but two of the fish seem to be doing well. The black mollies I have in there don't seem to appreciate the sand substrate and appear to be struggling. They were doing fine before the change but now look like they are having trouble swimming. Not sure if they are dying or just having trouble adjusting.

 

[libertybelle]

prime can be dosed up to 5x to neutralize ammonia/nitrites in an emergency. Double dosing at every water change while you're cycling will pose no overdose risk. Frankly during cycling if you don't do a water change one day I would still add a dose of prime if you have any ammonia / nitrites. It will protect your fish since prime can neutralize those substances for ~24 hours

some mollies are very near brackish fish...(though they are very adaptable to different conditions) could be osmotic stress. just something to consider. But if they were fine before and are now having trouble I would suspect the water quality issues from cycling. Look up molly shimmying and see if that is what they are doing.

 

[Ladeia3]

Here's the latest test results. Good / bad? Getting there?



Do I need to do a major water change, small one, or none at all?

Thanks

 

[libertybelle]

Really you should be planning on daily water changes until you get through cycling. Prime is only active in the water ~24 hours, so if you skip a day that ammonia and nitrite could be reverting back to its toxic form and causing your fish damage.

how's the ammonia alert look? Like I said, if there's any reading on the ammonia alert you should be doing a water change to protect your fish possibly overdosing with prime to neutralize it. It's kinda hard to tell from the picture but I see about 1ppm ammonia (fine IF you've added prime to the tank in the past 24 hours and so it's been neutralized - the ammonia alert should read 0) If it's reading anything above 0 water change (or add least a dose of prime to protect your fish.)

I can't tell what that nitrite reading is. It's possible you're moving from the ammonia spike portion of your cycle to the nitrite spike.

You've definitely got nitrates so your cycle is chugging along. At this point you just have to keep doing what you're doing and making sure you're doing enough water changes that that ammonia and nitrite aren't hurting your fish while those bacteria are growing.

This is not the fun part but it will pass!

 

[Ladeia3]

I did do a partial water change but I didn't want to mess the cycle up if I wasn't supposed to at that point. I have not missed a daily water change yet.

The Nitrites look like they are some weird color in between the blue and purple. It doesn't match any of the colors on the sheet no matter what light I hold it up to. I was hoping it was just my bad eyesight and it was obvious to someone else what level it was. Otherwise I'm going with it is between 0 and the first level.

The ammonia alert looks like this this. In the light, there seems to be a slight greenish cast to the yellow but I would put this in the safe zone.



Test results this morning.



Ammonia looks between .25 & .50. Nitrites looks more blue than purple so they've gone down from yesterday but I'm still not positive of what the reading should be on them. And plenty of Nitrate action going on. So looks like progress is being made.