Article on stocking

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I try to change water once a week. I use my nitrate reading as a guide for how much water I change. I look for a weekly balance of nitrates. Right now every Sunday I have 10ppm nitrates so I change about 30% if I have had a week where I have fed a little bit more than normal nitrates are up at the end of the week so I change more water. If I have fed normally and my nitrates are up I know my canister is due a clean. If my nitrates are up and I have cleaned my filter and fed normally I know my stocking levels are not right.

If I want a fish that is sensitive to nitrates I will either buy another tank or remove bioload from the current tank.

I can't deny that my fish seem to be a lot happier after a water change. It's just trying to find the balance. If your nitrate readings increase faster than your plants can use them (assuming you have live plants) then you are going to have to change water at some point.

In the wild it rains. Fresh water is added from a stream from where it has rained.

Also sixty if you are going to imply that the act of carrying out weekly water changes is an act of a fool you need to explain why. This will help the 99.9% of people that keep fish can be re-educated and helped on the right path.

I agree with you water changes should be done off of the water chemistry. High reading larger water change low with in tolerance reading dont mean not to change the water it means maybe you dont need to change a large amount of water. In my opinion not doing weelky water changes is like not cleaning your house. If you clean it while its not too bad then its easier to take care of if you wait till its a desaster then it takes a long time and alot of work to get things in order again.
In my opinion if you arent willing to do the work to keep fish healthy and their house clean you shouldnt be keeping them. A cat or dog can in alot of cases run away if it aint happy fish are stuck in a clear box with no way to tell you what they need or want its up to a responsible fish keeper to learn the best methods to take the best care possible of them.
 
If you tank NEEDS weekly changes, you messed up.

My big tank needs more than a weekly change to maintain the soft acid water. The clown loach are delicate, currently they are the sole inhabitants of a 750litre 198us liq gallon tank. Small frequent changes are better than one large change. These fish are healthy. They are in way more water than they need at this point in time, How is that a mess?

Some people seem happy to be changing on a monthly basis! Every time I read that I am absolutely shocked, water in an under stocked tank is no good after even two weeks, maybe a filter can go as long as four weeks in a single specimen tank but the water will be a mess.

Leave your toilet un-flushed for a month?

I can't see how I messed that up? Most people test, when the no3 is at a dangerous level proceed with a water change. I change before my no3 reaches a dangerous level. Maintaining stable water in every respect.
This will greatly increase the lifespan of your fish as they are not subjected to poison on a monthly basis.
 
My big tank needs more than a weekly change to maintain the soft acid water. The clown loach are delicate, currently they are the sole inhabitants of a 750litre 198us liq gallon tank. Small frequent changes are better than one large change. These fish are healthy. They are in way more water than they need at this point in time, How is that a mess?

Some people seem happy to be changing on a monthly basis! Every time I read that I am absolutely shocked, water in an under stocked tank is no good after even two weeks, maybe a filter can go as long as four weeks in a single specimen tank but the water will be a mess.

Leave your toilet un-flushed for a month?

I can't see how I messed that up? Most people test, when the no3 is at a dangerous level proceed with a water change. I change before my no3 reaches a dangerous level. Maintaining stable water in every respect.
This will greatly increase the lifespan of your fish as they are not subjected to poison on a monthly basis.

:-D
A responsible fish keeper. Dont wait until it is a mess you clean it before its a mess.
 
I agree with you water changes should be done off of the water chemistry. High reading larger water change low with in tolerance reading dont mean not to change the water it means maybe you dont need to change a large amount of water. In my opinion not doing weelky water changes is like not cleaning your house. If you clean it while its not too bad then its easier to take care of if you wait till its a desaster then it takes a long time and alot of work to get things in order again.
In my opinion if you arent willing to do the work to keep fish healthy and their house clean you shouldnt be keeping them. A cat or dog can in alot of cases run away if it aint happy fish are stuck in a clear box with no way to tell you what they need or want its up to a responsible fish keeper to learn the best methods to take the best care possible of them.

They tell you when they show the belly forever!
 
They tell you when they show the belly forever!

Good point! I love this site for the good advice you get but some people dont know or dont care try to give advice and will confuse new people. I research everything and ask questions. I have found that if it dont make sense research it again. Not doing water changes on a closed system just dont make good sense.
 
If you tank NEEDS weekly changes, you messed up.

At the moment this is a circular argument.
"If a tank needs water changes, you've messed up. Why? Because your tank should not need water changes. Only messed up tanks need weekly water changes "

That does not explain *why* frequent water changes are not desireable.

There's nothing there to convince anyone who is curious to find out about a different points of view.
 
Good point! I love this site for the good advice you get but some people dont know or dont care try to give advice and will confuse new people. I research everything and ask questions. I have found that if it dont make sense research it again. Not doing water changes on a closed system just dont make good sense.

Agreed, I try to make friends here based on, do they care? Can they teach me?

A yes in either category will do for me. I have experienced the "confuse them" method, I can't see it's worth, normally it's confuse then abandon! Or offer an alternative based on 0 knowledge, like you I will question and research until satisfied. No, is a simple word, so is yes, unfortunately humanity suffers from inability to admit error.

Your final sentence is excellent, in what way does a closed system resemble anything like a lake or river for water volume? That alone means change a bunch of water, just because you can not because you should, oh the test results would suggest the water in now poisonous, I will change a bit!

Unfortunately, routinely killing fish is not considered animal cruelty, it's good business!
That's why I think fish stores sometimes give outrageous advice. Don't get me wrong some places are excellent, others I think, whoa did they just do that! I'm off!
 
At the moment this is a circular argument. "If a tank needs water changes, you've messed up. Why? Because your tank should not need water changes. Only messed up tanks need weekly water changes " That does not explain *why* frequent water changes are not desireable. There's nothing there to convince anyone who is curious to find out about a different points of view.

I totally agree. I consider myself to be a beginner in this hobby so if someone has an opinion and provide reasons backing their opinion I will take that in and decide for myself whether or not I will follow that advice. I will question anything I am unsure of and will defend myself when I think I am right. However I will also admit when I am wrong. You will also never hear me say do this do that without giving reasons and I almost always add things like 'I read somewhere that..." Or "I've heard that" or "in my experience it's best to" I never take the sources I gather information from online as 100% truth.

Anywho I'm going to start a new thread with a question that's keeps bugging me so look out for it. It may be a really stupid question or way of thinking so please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I agree totally with Caliban. Nature's aquarium is not a closed system like our's.
Also agree with "Let your Nitrates be your guide" as to amount to change. I tried the monthly WC idea years ago and lost fish on a regular basis. With nitrate-guided weekly WC's no fish die except of old age. Time is not the measure to use. Nitrate accumulation is. OS.
 
There were too may responses to quote for this one (LOL) but I'll give you the explanation I was given for changing water:
In a closed system, chemical compounds we test for and don't test for accumulate in the tank. By doing partial water changes frequently, you eliminate or reduce these compounds from reaching higher, more toxic to the fish levels. That's the reason to do water changes.
As for the When and How Much: Fish tend to like and do better in a steady more balanced environment. By doing smaller, weekly water changes, the fish tend to not feel the difference of the change with the new water. If you are starting out with no to low chemical buildup and you replace some water with low to no chemical buildup, the fish tend to respond better. ( We called this "sweetening" of the water.) Dieoffs and illnesses occur more often when massive changes are done to the environment. In the wild, fish will move to another area where the water is more to their liking when the environment gets too bad. Often, during the rain, fish will move to more sheltered areas until the rain has stopped. Another factor from the rain is the oxygen content of the water. Rain will add a higher oxygen level to the water from all the surface aggitation. Sometimes, it's even too much so the fish wait until the water has settled down before returning to the area. (This is also true when fishing , my other past time ;) ) Since the fish in a closed system can't leave, it's best to keep their environment as stable as possible. Doing weekly smaller changes can achieve this. You COULD do it daily but to me, that's overkill. I have other things to do with my day too ;) ( and my fish don't seem to mind it. :D )

There's a separate, less talked about reason for smaller changes: YOU DON'T CONTROL THE WATER. For those of you using tap water with chemicals, do you know that your public water companies can change or alter their chemicals in the water without telling you? We had a situation back in the 1980s where our water company switched to chloramine without telling anyone. The pet store I was working in at the time suffered massive losses of our fish because our filters were just there to take out chlorine. The ammonia killed the fish. Now, take that on a smaller scale, if you added a toxic chemical to your tank, but it was in a low dose, chances are your fish would survive the addition until your chemical filter removed the toxin. If it were added in a large dose, it wouldn't bode well for the fish.

Using Nitrates as a guide is really a haphazard way of gauging. If you have live plants in the tank and they are keeping the nitrates low, they aren't necessarily reducing the other chemicals of the tank so you can still have a toxic environment even with low Nitrates. Even planted areas in the wild get rained on to help flush out the area. I'd venture to say that if water were tested in areas high in fish life and void of fish life, the second area would have foul water. To the poster who said their fish were better after doing large changes, I'd venture to say that the fish are doing better because the pre-change environment is too toxic or extreme too frequently and not balanced. Less fish = less buildup= less extremes for longer periods= healthier fish.

To me, having a nitrate problem in less than a week means the same thing, too many fish in too small a volume of water. I've kept fish for many years without ever testing for nitrates because I never let them get to any level of concern. The way to tell if this is a proper method is to judge their size and color vs their wild counterparts. If a wild fish grows to, for example, 5" and your fish only get to 3" in your tank, that should tell you that something is wrong. More often than not, it's environmental.

Here's something to think about: If your fish do better after a water change, doesn't that mean that the water they were in before the change was not good for them? I prefer my fish to not do better but do the same after a change. That means that I am keeping a healthy balanced environment for them to grow in.

That's my 2 cents ( but I paid a lot more than that for this education ;) )
 
If my ph kh gh ammonia nitrite are all steady at the levels they should be and after 1 week nitrates are a 10ppm how much further and what do I do to improve my quality of water before a water change?

Could it be that the oxygen levels rise slightly due to increased surface agitation when changing water or simply the fish enjoy the interaction with their owner. Perhaps they think they are being fed? Whatever the reason they are more active directly after a water change. Since I have done everything to ensure that parameters are at levels they should be I don't really know what else I should do.

I too do weekly water changes 25-30%. Most people will say that this is minimum or no where near enough. I use nitrates to gauge the amount of water I change Not the frequency. if I have to change any of those 2 variables then I know something is wrong ie gravel is dirty, canister is dirty, I'm feeding too much or I am overstocked. It's not like I'm running nitrates to 40-50ppm before a change. I use 10ppm as a baseline and work from that.

Since I can't ask my fish how they're getting on I personally think that this is a very sensible way of maintaining my my aquarium.
 
I do a 10% water change weekly. I never have nitrates. I consider this to be therapeutic for me. It is enjoyable for me to do my weekly cleaning and maintenance. I do not know if the fish need it or not, but they don't seem to mind and i get pleasure from this amazing hobby.
 
LOL, I haven't read all the butt hurt I started yet.

Most of us are pushing the limits on our tanks, or doing something weird. Weekly water changes in that case are a must. However, I think normal people (anyone reading this isn't) shouldn't have to do weekly water changes.
 
LOL, I haven't read all the butt hurt I started yet.

Most of us are pushing the limits on our tanks, or doing something weird. Weekly water changes in that case are a must. However, I think normal people (anyone reading this isn't) shouldn't have to do weekly water changes.

Fish in a tank is not "normal" allow for that fact then proceed,

I'm not doing anything weird!:eek:
At least not to my fish, my tank limits are most certainly not being pushed! How can you possibly conceive what "we" are doing with our tanks?

Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary you still maintain your position!

Below is the dictionary account of normal, according to it, us (alleged weirdos) are in fact the normal ones, it would appear that you break the normal contravention.

nor·mal [nawr-muhl] Show IPA
adjective
(y)1.
conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2.
serving to establish a standard.
3.
Psychology .
a.
approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.
b.
free from any mental disorder; sane.:whistle:
4.
Biology, Medicine/Medical .
a.
free from any infection or other form of disease or malformation, or from experimental therapy or manipulation.
b.
:taped:of natural occurrence.
5.
Mathematics .
a.
being at right angles, as a line; perpendicular.
b.
of the nature of or pertaining to a mathematical normal.
c.
(of an orthogonal system of real functions) defined so that the integral of the square of the absolute value of any function is 1.
d.
(of a topological space) having the property that corresponding to every pair of disjoint closed sets are two disjoint open sets, each containing one of the closed sets.
e.
(of a subgroup) having the property that the same set of elements results when all the elements of the subgroup are operated on consistently on the left and consistently on the right by any element of the group; invariant. :lol: it isn't mathematics but it is very relevant! Here I consider the left to be the tank water and the right to be the new water.
 
Cutting and pasting stuff from the dictionary isn't evidence. Show me evidence. Show me that in a well stocked tank you NEED to do weekly water changes. You guys talk like you have all this "evidence". I have a thread asking for test data. One person responded.
 
IMHO Andy Sager has explained the concept the best. Thanks Andy, that was a lot of typing. I go by my nitrate accumulation because I made the choice to slightly overstock my tank. Thus the NO3 builds up faster than my plants can use it. I also chose to have a couple of species that are nitrate sensitive. The term "sweetening the water" is a good way to say it. Even when my nitrates aren't at change point at week's end, I still do a WC. But hey, I'm retired and have plenty of time to do it. I guess it all depends on how you want to stock your tank on how often you want to do WC's. This is a VERY individualized hobby. I kept fish for 40+ years before they even had nitrate tests. Old timers like Andy have come to know when to do their WC's without testing for nitrates because of many years experience. They just know. OS.
 
Cutting and pasting stuff from the dictionary isn't evidence. Show me evidence. Show me that in a well stocked tank you NEED to do weekly water changes. You guys talk like you have all this "evidence". I have a thread asking for test data. One person responded.

It wasn't intended to be evidence! You clearly missed the point. It was a definition of what is normal. As you clearly seem to be chucking around statements of abnormality I thought perhaps you would benefit from a clear and concise interpretation of the word and its meaning.

Come to my house, I'll show you in person. The evidence is clear to see. I have several tanks full of evidence! In order to maintain a healthy system with mildly if even at all apparent changes in water chemistry it is more than necessary to change water on at least a weekly if not more often basis. I have online evidence of fish in tanks however the water chemistry is not plain to see from a photograph.

Do your own tests and don't rely on the work of others if you wish to see for yourself. Years of educated practice by more than one individual all giving favour toward the same motion is clearly insufficient evidence, what good would a web test do? We could cheat the results, I'm sure you would argue that point!

Our telling you is clearly not substantial evidence, this would lead me to believe the only data that may register with you is that which you yourself collate.
 
Here's my point. Somebody needs to post some pictures and test data from a tank that is established and correctly stocked that needs weekly changes. I think it doesn't exist. I think a well configured tank can handle less frequent maintenance.
 
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