Beefheart supplement

[Hobgob]

I've been having a little trouble finding a beef heart and really don't want to mess up the cleaning process. So my question is this, what could I use instead of beef heart for the protein part. I know they need 45-50% protein so for a kilo of food I was going to use 400-425 grams of protein.

I know studies have been done on soybean meal but I've always been told only to use soybean for 25% due to high levels negatively affect the ability to digest protein in younger discus. I know you can use fish meal but where in the world would I ever come across that? I've been told to use actual fish from the supermarket and that I should use a salt water fish because of parasites. I was just wondering what others have used for protein in their recipes?

Recipe
400-425g beef heart (protein)
200g fresh prawn meat (protein, lipids, minerals)
250g parboiled spinach (carbohydrates, fibers)
2 or 3 pieces carrot peeled parboiled (fibers, carotenoids)
1 teaspoon Astaxanthin (colour enhancement, red pigment found in Haematococus plusialis) probably spent wrong lol.
And other vitamins meds and minerals you want. Like pumpkin seeds!
Five grounds seeds per 100gram of Food mixture kills tapeworms and roundworms within 24 hours.

Anyways what all do you guys and gals use?

 

[stephen86]

Could use turkey heart?

 

[pip walters]

I'm not sure you could utilise it, but I once read an article by a fish nutrition expert (sorry, can't remember his name) who suggested that the earthworms contained one of the highest quality, most digestible proteins available, not to mention the vitamin and mineral content in worms - so much so that one could almost use it as a complete diet for fish. I also recall a man who was advocating human consumption of earthworms sayin the same...... he reckoned ten good earthworms contained more good protein than a pound of beef steak.

It would be interesting to know if anyone has used worms. I have used dried powdered earthworms before for conditioning corydoras parent fish and also feeding to their fry as they grew.

Do you ever use spirulina in your mixes?

 

[Hobgob]

I'm not sure you could utilise it, but I once read an article by a fish nutrition expert (sorry, can't remember his name) who suggested that the earthworms contained one of the highest quality, most digestible proteins available, not to mention the vitamin and mineral content in worms - so much so that one could almost use it as a complete diet for fish. I also recall a man who was advocating human consumption of earthworms sayin the same...... he reckoned ten good earthworms contained more good protein than a pound of beef steak.

It would be interesting to know if anyone has used worms. I have used dried powdered earthworms before for conditioning corydoras parent fish and also feeding to their fry as they grew.

Do you ever use spirulina in your mixes?

Actually I have had this mentioned to me before and cobt aquatic pro breeder flakes use the powder also. I've always just been iffy with transmitting parasites and bacteria. I've I didn't raise the worms myself I would have no idea where they would have been. Something I could look into though. Maybe I could find a farmer here or something.

 

[pip walters]

Actually I have had this mentioned to me before and cobt aquatic pro breeder flakes use the powder also. I've always just been iffy with transmitting parasites and bacteria. I've I didn't raise the worms myself I would have no idea where they would have been. Something I could look into though. Maybe I could find a farmer here or something.

I know what you mean. I couldn't be certain, but I doubt worms would transmit bacteria or parasires that could effect fish. The quickest way to kill a worm is to drop it into boiling water, which should wipe out any bacteria and parasites also. I wish I had the facilities to try this myself, as I am convinced worms would be a good addition. I met with an american fish food manafacturer who was considerkng using worm protein...... his diets contained soy protein at the time I met with him......., if I can remember the name kof his company, I will let you know..... could be worth contacting for advice if he is still in business.

 

[Hobgob]

Thank you and very interesting I know there are bacteria that can survive high temperutures. When I was in highschool I was going to try and attempt to create life by completely sterilizing an aquarium, close it off and go from there. Unfortunately my teacher quickly informed me of certain bacteria that could survive my sterilizing attempts...

But the bacteria most likely found in worms wouldn't die from it. The next step would be finding a decent supplier here in Canada. I was just talking to a butcher and he said he would help me clean the heart but I don't know... Still something I am definitely going to look into.

 

[pip walters]

Many moons ago when I was at school,.we disected worms in biology lessons. We killed them with boiling water then squeezed them from head to tail to remove the contents of their gut. This the preparation I would use, I think, if I were to use them as part of a discus mix.

I have fed live worms to feed fish such as hujeta, oscars, etc and also dwarf frogs, fire belly toads and newts. No problems so far.

It is surprising how many worms find their way into bodies of water. When I was farming carp species, we would get lots of them in the net when harvesting ponds. I wonder how many the fish had eaten. I believe a 1 acre field can house over 1 million earthworms, so there is huge potential.for them to wander into ponds during wet nights! Must be a similar story in water bodies all.over the.world.

I have snakeheads at work at the moment..... will have to try and find some worms for them.

Let us know if you give it a try

 

[Hobgob]

Sounds like an interesting thing. I will probably give it a go. How many worms would I need for 425grams?

 

[Matt68005]

You could mix baby formula powder into the feed to add protein and vitamins.

 

[pip walters]

Sounds like an interesting thing. I will probably give it a go. How many worms would I need for 425grams?

Can't answer that one I'm afraid... probably depends on the size/species of worm

 

[Hobgob]

You could mix baby formula powder into the feed to add protein and vitamins.

Hm interesting what else what it be adding though?

 

[jlk]

You could mix baby formula powder into the feed to add protein and vitamins.

I would not advise doing this.

Baby formula is manufactured from cow's milk. The ability to digest milk is solely a function of mammals, primarily prior to weaning. Fish can not digest lactose (milk sugars) as they do not produce lactase enzymes to metabolize it. In addition, the concentrations of various vitamins and minerals could potentially be toxic to fish as they formulated for a growing human infant, not an aquatic creature.

Worms are a great suggestion as is spirulina. Earthworms average a protein level of 80+% per body weight and are very easily digested. Spirulina encompasses all of the essential amino acids as well as wide array of vitamins and minerals.

There is actually a company in the US that sells earthworm flakes and pellets but I am not sure if they ship outside of the US. Spirulina is pretty easy to find online and in health food stores. Have you considered using fresh or frozen fish as a source of protein? Flounder or tilapia would be high protein but low fat content while salmon or mackerel would be high protein with a more substantial fat content. Just a thought!

 

[Hobgob]

I have thought about using fish and I did not know milk is a mammals thing. Very interesting information! I have thought about using fresh fish as my protein source. I'm just not sure which would be best. I was told to use salt water fish as the parasites cannot live in freshwater. Spirulina does sounds interesting and I know many people use it for different things. I might need to do some more reading on it.

 

[pip walters]

Milk is also good at deoxygenating water!

 

[jlk]

Using sw fish to avoid parasites is an interesting consideration but I think it may be unnecessary. Human grade fish (vs wild caught) is heavily regulated in order for it to be considered safe for consumption as we are able to contract parasites such as tapeworms. Sushi grade fish is held to even higher standards as its typically consumed raw. A simple safety practice is to thoroughly cook fish before using it (or eating it). I actually use canned whole salmon and mackerel (meant for us to eat) as the base proteins for my homemade fish food. Salmon is definitely preferred by my guys!

 

[Hobgob]

Salmon really? Even your Goldie's? That's amazing. I will def look into it. I also found that an average an earthworm is 28grams... According to the Internet though lol. Not like I actually got a bunch and found out the mean of them. So I will need roughly 15-18 I guess. Now what would be better. Fish or worms. Fish would most likely contain some astaxanthin in it..

 

[jlk]

Yep, my goldies love salmon!! Turn their noses up at mackerel, tilapia, cod, flounder and other fish I have tried. They like shellfish (shrimp, crab, etc) but its a bit too pricey for my budget and I save it as occasional treat instead. Shellfish is very high in iodine so it's not something I would use as a staple food anyway.

They also love their earthworms and I feed quite a bit to my pond fish too. Helps them to put weight back on quickly after many months of no food. Only caution with the worms is to make sure you dig them up in area that is pesticide and chemical free and is not in an area that receives run-off water from neighbors or businesses.

I have actually tried to farm earthworms over the winter a couple of times for my inside guys but I guess I lack the talent to grow them.... I may try freezing batches of them for next winter but I am not sure how well bags of frozen worms would go over in my house.

 

[Hobgob]

Maybe I will do a salmon worm mix..

 

[Hobgob]

Also would the worms from my gas station be ok or should I go collect them myself?

 

[Hobgob]

Also would the worms from my gas station be ok? I'm good friends with the owner and can see if he catches them himself or ships them in. Or would I be better off collecting them myself?