Big, weekly water changes. Good idea or not?

[ktomminello]

Train ending! Still reading thread. What about over summer though - we get no rain at all

Then your top offs would be daily and I would suggest a spray fountain for your filter outlet to ensure your marginal plants get enough water and your oxygen levels don't become too affected by a lack of water motion.

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[gilpi]

I have changed 50-60% of the water in my 27g weekly since I got it in December. It has always been crystal clear and never had any issues. But, I have filters suited for a total of ~200g of water volume, so that may have something to do with it.. Anyway, I had 2 snails die (water is too soft so their shells deteriorated and they died) at the same time, and didn't even notice. I also had 3 cory catfish die (darn ABN pleco picked them off...) and didn't see anything bad. I've actually never seen nitrIte in my tank, not even while cycling.
Since I have a python, it's not harder to change 50-70% of the water versus 10-20%... Just takes longer. (speaking of which.. i need to buy some more Prime. my 500mL bottle I've used for 9 months is around 1/4 way full with weekly 50% W/C. I dose 5mL or so WC.)

I'd honestly just do the larger water changes, even if it is bucket changes. It will be worth it to keep your fish well.

That python is a life saver. I used to think carrying buckets around would be a good workout, it got old real fast. I am using now a garden hose and it works better for me, seems faster both ways, in and out.

 

[Andy Sager]

The tank is stand alone. I believe it may have 2 cannisters and possibly an AC 110. The one next to it is identical. All tanks in the facility are stand alone, as this is a quarantine facility. They even had to get rid of the wood stands and switch to fibreglass because it was necessary to be able to disinfect everything in the event of any disease being introduced, in order to participate in the program.

So then, as a quarantine station, these fish are not being kept this way long term or are they? I know at our QT section, fish are kept under meds and/or observation but still kept differently than a fish would be in a home aquarium. We are talking about in a home aquarium in this thread aren't we?

 

[Andy Sager]

In regards to your reply to me..

Let's start by saying I'm also old school, I'll be going into 30 plus years of keeping fish. It is my hobby and passion.

In regards to an "ecologically sound environment" we can never duplicate a lake or an ocean, no matter what kind of filtration we use, period. Any closed environment will need to have it's water replaced at one time or another.
Believe when I tell you I hate changing water as much as the next guy but I know water it's the fish life line.

Not sure about the toilet bowl comment or what you mean by it and not sure I appreciate it, perhaps I mentioned that fish live in their own waste? If they didn't, there would be no need for water change or even less a nitrification process. Ok so there is a process that takes place turning the ammonia into nitrites then into less harmful nitrates, notice the "less" harmful. We use carbon, special pads etc, you will still get nitrates.

Now, knowing how important fresh water is to a fish, wouldn't you want to be more aggressive about water changes and the volume changed?

As far as the need for cycling an aquarium, my discus tank does not have a filter, they get nothing but a fresh dose of water every other day, anywhere from 50% to 80% and they get water movement from an air stone, that's it.
I actually wish I could apply this same regimen to my other tanks but unfortunately it would consist of moving a few hundred gallons a week, so they get filtration and as much water change as I possibly can give them with the little time I have.

So simply because I choose not to take my fish to the so called maximum level of nitrate tolerance between water changes, is it a waste? I don't know, is it bad for the fish? I don't think so.

Now let me ask you, the fact that I put my fish under the less possible stress I can supply them with be a joke to you?

I don;t want to take over this thread but I do want to address some issues then call it a day.
No, you can not ideally create the perfect ecologically sound environment in a closed system but you can come close. To do that means that you can't just over do everything. This brings up the practicality of fish keeping. If you need to do that much water changing to keep your fish healthy, that doesn't sound like a very practical way of fish keeping to me. How is one to enjoy this hobby with a job, family demands and whatnot when they have to be changing water 2 times a week to keep their fish from dying when just changing the setup to a more practical fish load to tank/ filtering
set up will do this?

As for the toilet issue, it congers up the image of unfiltered waste just sitting in the water polluting the water while in fact, the filtering system is supposed to be removing it out of the water so that it is NOT doing that. If your tank is full of fish "poo" maybe you need a better filtering system. But to bring this back to my retort, do you swim in lakes or the ocean? If you do, you are swimming in that toilet because the bottom of the lake and the ocean is loaded with fish "poo". If you don;t think so, think again. It takes time for that feces to decompose and get used so until it does, you are swimming in it. Lovely thought, isn't it? You want to compare that to your fish tank?

As for your Discus tank, I don;t doubt that you can get away with that kind of set up IF you are using the right kind of water. Realizing that since ammonia is not in a toxic form at lower PH levels and bacterial life is altered and reduced thereby reducing the amount of eventual nitrates being produced, how can you say that that is a practical way for all tanks to be? It only applies when you have those water parameters. You need to mention that because it is NOT a general rule that applies to everyone. Also, if it is such a practical way of fish keeping, why aren't you doing it to all your tanks? I have too many tanks going for that to be practical for me and I'm sure most of the people in the hobby. Keep this in mind, water, is a vanishing commodity across the globe. The more we use up now, the less we have for tomorrow. Why promote a methodology that requires over use of it? My tanks are not pushed to the nitrate limits because I don;t over stock them. Therefore, there is no need to do massive water changes. I've had my water tested over the years at pet shops as well as the Rosensteil school for marine science at the University of Miami and none have found my levels to be anywhere near dangerous to sustain fish life. So this method I use has proven out multiple times over my 50 years of fish keeping.

But the bottom line, I thought, was to advise people about fish keeping in ways that apply to all not just a few. And if it applies to a few, it needs to be noted so that people who are new to the hobby can understand that THIS or THAT may not apply to them should they come to a thread such as this.

That's all I was sayin'

 

[Masha]

Is that plants above the water surface? Maybe that's the difference. I just don't get that with ponds then on no water changes?

Yes - I don't know if "emergent" is an actual word! But I mean plants with leaves above the surface - apparently those remove ammonia, ammonium, nitrites, nitrates, etc a lot more efficiently than plants that are completely submerged.

 

[Delapool]

Yes - I don't know if "emergent" is an actual word! But I mean plants with leaves above the surface - apparently those remove ammonia, ammonium, nitrites, nitrates, etc a lot more efficiently than plants that are completely submerged.

Thanks - boy, lots of posts! I'd heard that as well, I think from jlk. There was a thread where tank ph had crashed and it had plants above the surface. Ph dive was thought to be due to these sorts of plants.

 

[jetajockey]

No water changes is a bad idea on any small system in the long term. Of course it's dependent on how each system is set up. Nutrient import is as important as nutrient export, and while fert dosing accomplishes this as well, people often overlook the nutrients being imported into a system with fresh water.

 

[gilpi]

No water changes is a bad idea on any small system in the long term. Of course it's dependent on how each system is set up. Nutrient import is as important as nutrient export, and while fert dosing accomplishes this as well, people often overlook the nutrients being imported into a system with fresh water.

Right to the point.

 

[FishieMomma]

Despite the occasional snarky back and forth, I actually enjoyed this thread and learned a lot.

I am not a newbie any more, but feel like I will forever be a beginner. I never realized how important it was to keep the TDS from building up or changing too drastically. I frequently did extra large water changes if I missed a scheduled change without realizing it was bad. Because my tank was so heavily planted the nitrates were always low, so I though that gave me a "cushion", so-to-speak. Sort of overdraft protection, if you will.

I am between set-ups at the moment as we have just moved across several states and I had to give away my fish and plants and do a total tank breakdown. My empty tank and other aquarium supplied will be delivered next week (along with everything else) and I am looking forward to starting again - this time with more knowledge.


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[gilpi]

I don;t want to take over this thread but I do want to address some issues then call it a day. No, you can not ideally create the perfect ecologically sound environment in a closed system but you can come close. To do that means that you can't just over do everything. This brings up the practicality of fish keeping. If you need to do that much water changing to keep your fish healthy, that doesn't sound like a very practical way of fish keeping to me. How is one to enjoy this hobby with a job, family demands and whatnot when they have to be changing water 2 times a week to keep their fish from dying when just changing the setup to a more practical fish load to tank/ filtering set up will do this? As for the toilet issue, it congers up the image of unfiltered waste just sitting in the water polluting the water while in fact, the filtering system is supposed to be removing it out of the water so that it is NOT doing that. If your tank is full of fish "poo" maybe you need a better filtering system. But to bring this back to my retort, do you swim in lakes or the ocean? If you do, you are swimming in that toilet because the bottom of the lake and the ocean is loaded with fish "poo". If you don;t think so, think again. It takes time for that feces to decompose and get used so until it does, you are swimming in it. Lovely thought, isn't it? You want to compare that to your fish tank? As for your Discus tank, I don;t doubt that you can get away with that kind of set up IF you are using the right kind of water. Realizing that since ammonia is not in a toxic form at lower PH levels and bacterial life is altered and reduced thereby reducing the amount of eventual nitrates being produced, how can you say that that is a practical way for all tanks to be? It only applies when you have those water parameters. You need to mention that because it is NOT a general rule that applies to everyone. Also, if it is such a practical way of fish keeping, why aren't you doing it to all your tanks? I have too many tanks going for that to be practical for me and I'm sure most of the people in the hobby. Keep this in mind, water, is a vanishing commodity across the globe. The more we use up now, the less we have for tomorrow. Why promote a methodology that requires over use of it? My tanks are not pushed to the nitrate limits because I don;t over stock them. Therefore, there is no need to do massive water changes. I've had my water tested over the years at pet shops as well as the Rosensteil school for marine science at the University of Miami and none have found my levels to be anywhere near dangerous to sustain fish life. So this method I use has proven out multiple times over my 50 years of fish keeping. But the bottom line, I thought, was to advise people about fish keeping in ways that apply to all not just a few. And if it applies to a few, it needs to be noted so that people who are new to the hobby can understand that THIS or THAT may not apply to them should they come to a thread such as this. That's all I was sayin'

How much water one wants to change is up to the individual and will not change the fact that fish thrive in fresh water. How is that a controversy? It means nothing to anyone where one gets their water checked, Petco, the University of Miami or NASA, your fish need fresh water the more the better. That we don't have time to do as many changes I we should, me included, is irrelevant and your fish will survive a missed water change or two. You can make it difficult or a mystery or even a science, it boils down to fresh water, not sure how this can even be a controversy. Making silly swimming in fish poop, toilet comments or to suggest that we can come close to duplicating the conditions of a lake and the oceans are false and adds no benefit to this topic.

 

[fort384]

All

Several posts were removed due to being off topic from the OP. There is some great discussion here and some of it was removed due to that. Apologies but we try keep threads on topic when possible. What we do not do is remove posts as a conspiracy or to stifle certain opinions.

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