Big, weekly water changes. Good idea or not?

[Caliban07]

The number of people missing the 1k+ post count and the fact that you're a forum supporter and believing the 1 neon in a 100g tank with super filtration to not be a hypothetical situation is rather staggering

Darn it. I should have put a moustache on profile pic and called myself coliban08...

All joking aside. Seems like a childish post and I don't condone that but at this point I'm finding it's the only way to get across that tanks are unique and in my hypothetical case. Changing 50% of the water weekly would be completely and utterly unnecessary.


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[ktomminello]

I live in the northeastern United states and maintain indoor and outdoor ponds. Because of the cold winters there is the necessity of moving pond fish from their outdoor homes to their indoor homes (unless you have the money to heat the outdoor pond, which can be as expensive as electrically heating a small apartment) and weighing in on the subject of pond water changes I have to say this- with proper filter maintenance and the right oxygenators, floaters and marginal plants most ponds are perfectly fine with simple top offs... as long as the pond is outside and not in an unsecured location. Indoor ponds require water changes, altered filtration and circulation and filter cleanings at least every 3-6 months. I have yet to see any of the fish in these ponds spawn (other than mosquito fish) successfully.

I have a 9X3X4 foot, a 6X3X3 foot and a 3X3X3 foot feature tanks in my home housing large cichlids which greatly benefit from 50% changes every 2 weeks along with daily vacuuming of excessive waste and monthly filter cleanings. They don't do very well on weekly changes of 25-30% changes and my large fish seem to despise daily water changes.

My heavily planted 5.5g, 10g, 20g and 29g feature tanks do best with small daily water changes (no more than 10%) and weekly filter swishing.

My 40g community turtle tank requires 2 10g changes a week (I have 3 goldfish and a gibbeceps in with a rescued musk turtle) and the filters need daily debris clean outs.

My 55g non planted community tank does fine on a monthly change of 50% and I clean the filters when I do the water change.

Imo there is no generic rule to apply to water changes simply because of the variables the tank OWNER throws at him/her self and the only way to know which water change regiment is the better choice for your set up is to know the specifics on the fish you stock and observe and take notes on what works and what doesn't. That's probably why I have no life.

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[Luananeko]

Ponds utilize far more emergent plants than most aquariums do, plus receive fresh water every time it rains (assuming they're outdoor), so comparing their water change schedules with ours is a little bit of apples to oranges. People also will usually stock ponds less heavily than we do our aquariums.

 

[Caliban07]

I live in the northeastern United states and maintain indoor and outdoor ponds. Because of the cold winters there is the necessity of moving pond fish from their outdoor homes to their indoor homes (unless you have the money to heat the outdoor pond, which can be as expensive as electrically heating a small apartment) and weighing in on the subject of pond water changes I have to say this- with proper filter maintenance and the right oxygenators, floaters and marginal plants most ponds are perfectly fine with simple top offs... as long as the pond is outside and not in an unsecured location. Indoor ponds require water changes, altered filtration and circulation and filter cleanings at least every 3-6 months. I have yet to see any of the fish in these ponds spawn (other than mosquito fish) successfully.

I have a 9X3X4 foot, a 6X3X3 foot and a 3X3X3

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My dad has a pond. It's an odd shape so I don't know the dimensions. He's lived at his home with the pond for 12 years. The filter box got blocked and stopped running and he has never changed the water, until I encouraged him to change it. Not 50% all at once. Before I helped him change the water I did a test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. 0-0-10ppm was the result.

There is however green pea soup water and a huge lilly pad in there.

I've managed to change some water and get the filter running again so far.

He inherited the pond with the house and didn't care for the fish much. I am determined for him to be able to see his fish so work has commenced.


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[SFAquariums1]

But what about my nitrates? Wouldn't they rise to a detectable level?


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I guess I'm confused now. Are you implying you don't want to add any more fish because you think your parameters will change?

People say neons are good in schools of 3 or more. I usually keep them 6 or more.


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[Luananeko]

I guess I'm confused now. Are you implying you don't want to add any more fish because you think your parameters will change?

People say neons are good in schools of 3 or more. I usually keep them 6 or more.


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It was a hypothetical situation to prove a point, not serious

 

[PB_Smith]

You can go the other way and remove too much. Then, you risk shocking the fish due to a sudden change in the water chemistry. Half the tank's volume in gallons doesn't mean you remove half the water. There is generally three inches of bottom material, plants, etc. that change the actual amount of water in the tank.

I measure the tank and put a mark on the halfway point of the tank and remove the water to that point.

Right, so in reality when you measure your tank to the halfway mark and then drain down to that mark you are not removing 50% of the water, it is more like 70%+ when you take into consideration the displacement of all the substrate and décor.
you do understand displacement, right.
My 10 gallon only actually holds about 6.5-7 gallons based on actual dimensions and displacement of substrate/décor. So if I drain to halfway down the tank, or an assumed 50%; 5 gallons, that is considerably more than 50% of the actual water.

your logic is.....well completely backwards and contradictory.

Then when we further look at your tanks, most of them are only 50%-60% full anyway, so you measure the halfway mark, but only fill the tanks halfway to begin with

 

[gilpi]

I guess I'm confused now. Are you implying you don't want to add any more fish because you think your parameters will change? People say neons are good in schools of 3 or more. I usually keep them 6 or more. Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Come on man, stop it. You're gonna ruin a good argument. I'm trying to find out if I can up my water change from 25% to 26.5% without killing my fish !

 

[Caliban07]

Come on man, stop it. You're gonna ruin a good argument. I'm trying to find out if I can up my water change from 25% to 26.5% without killing my fish !

If your fish look healthy and nitrates are at a considered reasonable level then I would say that the extra 1.5% is unnecessary.


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[T1KARMANN]

I live in the northeastern United states and maintain indoor and outdoor ponds. Because of the cold winters there is the necessity of moving pond fish from their outdoor homes to their indoor homes (unless you have the money to heat the outdoor pond, which can be as expensive as electrically heating a small apartment) and weighing in on the subject of pond water changes I have to say this- with proper filter maintenance and the right oxygenators, floaters and marginal plants most ponds are perfectly fine with simple top offs... as long as the pond is outside and not in an unsecured location. Indoor ponds require water changes, altered filtration and circulation and filter cleanings at least every 3-6 months. I have yet to see any of the fish in these ponds spawn (other than mosquito fish) successfully.

I have a 9X3X4 foot, a 6X3X3 foot and a 3X3X3 foot feature tanks in my home housing large cichlids which greatly benefit from 50% changes every 2 weeks along with daily vacuuming of excessive waste and monthly filter cleanings. They don't do very well on weekly changes of 25-30% changes and my large fish seem to despise daily water changes.

My heavily planted 5.5g, 10g, 20g and 29g feature tanks do best with small daily water changes (no more than 10%) and weekly filter swishing.

My 40g community turtle tank requires 2 10g changes a week (I have 3 goldfish and a gibbeceps in with a rescued musk turtle) and the filters need daily debris clean outs.

My 55g non planted community tank does fine on a monthly change of 50% and I clean the filters when I do the water change.

Imo there is no generic rule to apply to water changes simply because of the variables the tank OWNER throws at him/her self and the only way to know which water change regiment is the better choice for your set up is to know the specifics on the fish you stock and observe and take notes on what works and what doesn't. That's probably why I have no life.

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Why would you need to do monthly filter cleaning on a large indoor tank

I clean my sump pumps every 6 months


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[enrgizerbunny]

Out of curiosity what do people do with fish ponds? My neighbours pond seems to just sit there with the cat sleeping on the mesh. I think he cleans it once a year and just whatever rain flushes it, is that normal?

Edit - it's a small pond say 6ft by 3ft by 2ft deep maybe.

My boss doesn't do crap to his ponds as far as water changes go. He has plants in all of them, though.

Jlk will beg to differ, but the fish are doing fine. Ponds are different in my opinion, given the pH and temperature swings they go through. (Again, depends on the size of the pond)

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[Andy Sager]

To try and bring this thread back to it's original intention and to let Gilpi know that he/she took my comment out of context, the thing you all seem to be forgetting is that ( and I'm old school here so bare with me ), An aquarium is supposed to be an ecologically sound environment in which the aquatic life inside the aquarium can not only live but thrive. It's not a box in which we try to stuff as much as you can into it. In order to keep this equilibrium, there needs to be things done to the tank because it's a closed system. Water changes help: purify the water, replenish minerals and trace elements that the fish absorb and remove from the water as well as remove and dilute the last step of the nitrification process which gives us nitrates.
This is not all that it does but these are the basics. If equilibrium wasn't an issue, there would be no reason to cycle an aquarium, just change the water. Don;t filter, just change the water. Don;t plant the tank as a means to remove nitrogen, just change the water. Get my point?

As for how much, it's been discussed already that there is no "average" tank so there can't be an "average" amount to change. The comment my Mentor used was to help guide me to better husbandry of the fish I kept and should be a guideline to other fish keepers as well. Fish are not always forgiving and many a tankful of fish have been lost due to improper husbandry. My mentor's suggestion was that by doing certain things routinely but not extremely, I should have a better success rate just as he did for all his years in the hobby. ( He started with fish back in the 1930s. ) This is my 50th year keeping fish and have had so much success in that time doing the things I was taught in the beginning and still do today. In today's "hobby", extremism seems to be the norm. Is it necessary, really? The important part of my comment that Gilpi brought out is that "if your fish look better after a water change you didn't change it soon enough." What that translates to is that your tank is not being managed properly and your fish are suffering while waiting for you to clean up after them. My fish look just the same after a water change as they do before it because I don;t let the tank get to any extreme levels. That's been an invaluable system as it's helped me breed many types of fish ( most of them wild caught or newly domesticated.) So the system shows that it works.

As for the tank being a "toilet bowl", if this is true, then you also have to consider any lake, pond, stream or ocean that has life in it as one as well. HOWEVER, just as these bodies of water have ways of cleansing the water of these "impurities", our tanks have also in the form of filters and absorbent materials we put into them. So if your tank is a "toilet bowl", shame on you for not taking better care of your pets.

For any newbie just starting out, how are they to know what is "right or wrong" if we don;t take these threads seriously? I'm all for a good joke but this is no joking matter. Doing this wrong can lead to a tank full of sick fish. Just look at the thread numbers in the "sick fish/ unhealthy fish" forums. Doing this wrong can kill a tank full of fish as well. So should we really be joking on this subject? So since this is the internet and anyone with a keyboard can post anything they want with no repercussions, to those who need help, feel free to PM me with any serious questions about fish keeping. I will do my best to help you. For those looking to fill my inbox with nonsense, be aware that I will forward your PMs to the administrators. DON'T waste my time.

Hope this helps

 

[ktomminello]

Why would you need to do monthly filter cleaning on a large indoor tank

I clean my sump pumps every 6 months


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I have an aquaponic garden attached to my cichlid tanks and they are quite overstocked so I have to keep on clearing the sponges.

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[gilpi]

To try and bring this thread back to it's original intention and to let Gilpi know that he/she took my comment out of context, the thing you all seem to be forgetting is that ( and I'm old school here so bare with me ), An aquarium is supposed to be an ecologically sound environment in which the aquatic life inside the aquarium can not only live but thrive. It's not a box in which we try to stuff as much as you can into it. In order to keep this equilibrium, there needs to be things done to the tank because it's a closed system. Water changes help: purify the water, replenish minerals and trace elements that the fish absorb and remove from the water as well as remove and dilute the last step of the nitrification process which gives us nitrates.
This is not all that it does but these are the basics. If equilibrium wasn't an issue, there would be no reason to cycle an aquarium, just change the water. Don;t filter, just change the water. Don;t plant the tank as a means to remove nitrogen, just change the water. Get my point?

As for how much, it's been discussed already that there is no "average" tank so there can't be an "average" amount to change. The comment my Mentor used was to help guide me to better husbandry of the fish I kept and should be a guideline to other fish keepers as well. Fish are not always forgiving and many a tankful of fish have been lost due to improper husbandry. My mentor's suggestion was that by doing certain things routinely but not extremely, I should have a better success rate just as he did for all his years in the hobby. ( He started with fish back in the 1930s. ) This is my 50th year keeping fish and have had so much success in that time doing the things I was taught in the beginning and still do today. In today's "hobby", extremism seems to be the norm. Is it necessary, really? The important part of my comment that Gilpi brought out is that "if your fish look better after a water change you didn't change it soon enough." What that translates to is that your tank is not being managed properly and your fish are suffering while waiting for you to clean up after them. My fish look just the same after a water change as they do before it because I don;t let the tank get to any extreme levels. That's been an invaluable system as it's helped me breed many types of fish ( most of them wild caught or newly domesticated.) So the system shows that it works.

As for the tank being a "toilet bowl", if this is true, then you also have to consider any lake, pond, stream or ocean that has life in it as one as well. HOWEVER, just as these bodies of water have ways of cleansing the water of these "impurities", our tanks have also in the form of filters and absorbent materials we put into them. So if your tank is a "toilet bowl", shame on you for not taking better care of your pets.

For any newbie just starting out, how are they to know what is "right or wrong" if we don;t take these threads seriously? I'm all for a good joke but this is no joking matter. Doing this wrong can lead to a tank full of sick fish. Just look at the thread numbers in the "sick fish/ unhealthy fish" forums. Doing this wrong can kill a tank full of fish as well. So should we really be joking on this subject? So since this is the internet and anyone with a keyboard can post anything they want with no repercussions, to those who need help, feel free to PM me with any serious questions about fish keeping. I will do my best to help you. For those looking to fill my inbox with nonsense, be aware that I will forward your PMs to the administrators. DON'T waste my time.

Hope this helps

In regards to your reply to me..

Let's start by saying I'm also old school, I'll be going into 30 plus years of keeping fish. It is my hobby and passion.

In regards to an "ecologically sound environment" we can never duplicate a lake or an ocean, no matter what kind of filtration we use, period. Any closed environment will need to have it's water replaced at one time or another.
Believe when I tell you I hate changing water as much as the next guy but I know water it's the fish life line.

Not sure about the toilet bowl comment or what you mean by it and not sure I appreciate it, perhaps I mentioned that fish live in their own waste? If they didn't, there would be no need for water change or even less a nitrification process. Ok so there is a process that takes place turning the ammonia into nitrites then into less harmful nitrates, notice the "less" harmful. We use carbon, special pads etc, you will still get nitrates.

Now, knowing how important fresh water is to a fish, wouldn't you want to be more aggressive about water changes and the volume changed?

As far as the need for cycling an aquarium, my discus tank does not have a filter, they get nothing but a fresh dose of water every other day, anywhere from 50% to 80% and they get water movement from an air stone, that's it.
I actually wish I could apply this same regimen to my other tanks but unfortunately it would consist of moving a few hundred gallons a week, so they get filtration and as much water change as I possibly can give them with the little time I have.

So simply because I choose not to take my fish to the so called maximum level of nitrate tolerance between water changes, is it a waste? I don't know, is it bad for the fish? I don't think so.

Now let me ask you, the fact that I put my fish under the less possible stress I can supply them with be a joke to you?

 

[1998golfer]

I have changed 50-60% of the water in my 27g weekly since I got it in December. It has always been crystal clear and never had any issues. But, I have filters suited for a total of ~200g of water volume, so that may have something to do with it.. Anyway, I had 2 snails die (water is too soft so their shells deteriorated and they died) at the same time, and didn't even notice. I also had 3 cory catfish die (darn ABN pleco picked them off...) and didn't see anything bad. I've actually never seen nitrIte in my tank, not even while cycling.
Since I have a python, it's not harder to change 50-70% of the water versus 10-20%... Just takes longer. (speaking of which.. i need to buy some more Prime. my 500mL bottle I've used for 9 months is around 1/4 way full with weekly 50% W/C. I dose 5mL or so WC.)

I'd honestly just do the larger water changes, even if it is bucket changes. It will be worth it to keep your fish well.

 

[Mattyfelts]

to be quite frank i do anywhere from 25% to 50% on my 55 gallon. More clean water = better for fish, larger water change = more stressful on fish. It's really a give and take.

 

[BillD]

My only question to this pic is: "Is this a tank on it's own or part of a larger system whereby the water volume is much greater than the size of the tank?"
:

The tank is stand alone. I believe it may have 2 cannisters and possibly an AC 110. The one next to it is identical. All tanks in the facility are stand alone, as this is a quarantine facility. They even had to get rid of the wood stands and switch to fibreglass because it was necessary to be able to disinfect everything in the event of any disease being introduced, in order to participate in the program.

 

[Delapool]

I've wondered this too. My father has two ponds, each about the same size as that except maybe about a foot deeper. He just tops them up. But they are absolutely STUFFED with emergent plants. The fish breed like crazy in there.

Is that plants above the water surface? Maybe that's the difference. I just don't get that with ponds then on no water changes?

 

[Delapool]

I live in the northeastern United states and maintain indoor and outdoor ponds. Because of the cold winters there is the necessity of moving pond fish from their outdoor homes to their indoor homes (unless you have the money to heat the outdoor pond, which can be as expensive as electrically heating a small apartment) and weighing in on the subject of pond water changes I have to say this- with proper filter maintenance and the right oxygenators, floaters and marginal plants most ponds are perfectly fine with simple top offs... as long as the pond is outside and not in an unsecured location. Indoor ponds require water changes, altered filtration and circulation and filter cleanings at least every 3-6 months. I have yet to see any of the fish in these ponds spawn (other than mosquito fish) successfully.

I have a 9X3X4 foot, a 6X3X3 foot and a 3X3X3 foot feature tanks in my home housing large cichlids which greatly benefit from 50% changes every 2 weeks along with daily vacuuming of excessive waste and monthly filter cleanings. They don't do very well on weekly changes of 25-30% changes and my large fish seem to despise daily water changes.

My heavily planted 5.5g, 10g, 20g and 29g feature tanks do best with small daily water changes (no more than 10%) and weekly filter swishing.

My 40g community turtle tank requires 2 10g changes a week (I have 3 goldfish and a gibbeceps in with a rescued musk turtle) and the filters need daily debris clean outs.

My 55g non planted community tank does fine on a monthly change of 50% and I clean the filters when I do the water change.

Imo there is no generic rule to apply to water changes simply because of the variables the tank OWNER throws at him/her self and the only way to know which water change regiment is the better choice for your set up is to know the specifics on the fish you stock and observe and take notes on what works and what doesn't. That's probably why I have no life.

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Hi, missing the difference on outdoor vs indoor ponds. Is it the marginal plants?

 

[Delapool]

Ponds utilize far more emergent plants than most aquariums do, plus receive fresh water every time it rains (assuming they're outdoor), so comparing their water change schedules with ours is a little bit of apples to oranges. People also will usually stock ponds less heavily than we do our aquariums.

Train ending! Still reading thread. What about over summer though - we get no rain at all