Buying Tank Necessities

[Brookster123]

Myth busters!!! I'm emailing them tonight!

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[DeeLee2013]

may I ask, was this a camping accident? only reason I ask is because people get rocks from the river and put them around the fire, these rocks become "super heated" much hotter than what can be achieved on your stove. Most of the time a rock will just crack not explode unless air pockets are in the rock and they are super heated.



Good call on the api products, I also use them for my planted tank. Don't really need an expensive co2 system if what you are doing works just fine. I noticed significant growth with my amazon swords from just root tabs. The fish provide enough c02 for the plants

Not a camping incident at all, actually. My husband is a historic black powder weapons specialist and inspector. So, he deals with super-heated "rocks" in 3F black powder all the time. During a routine demonstration, a gun cooked off early while he was pulling the ramrod out. Ramrod went flying about 15 yards into a body of water, and his hand was impacted with thousands of glass-like, superheated shards of flammable solid, plus the shockwave and fire from the discharge as well. Had he been mishandling the ramrod, he may very well have lost his hand. Thankfully, his hand is still attached. It's been two years, but he still has scars from the incident. While "rocks" only on a small level, I can attest that anything impacting the skin at any heated temperature and at high velocity causes a great deal of damage and pain.

I agree that 99% of local rocks won't explode. But, there's also the motto that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

OP - research is key. Above all else, have fun and do right by the animals you intend to keep. It takes patience and a never-ending learning curve, but it's rewarding to see the final product.


? Diana Lee ?
? the St. Augustine Redhead ?

 

[Linwood]

Lin.. while I'm sure you're correct, seems you're pretty freakin smaht some rocks contain gas pockets or voids.. even at low temps (-125°), surely said pocket could expand resulting in an explosion of sorts.. it's just one of those things.. better safe than sorry..

I'm, not following the low temp aspect but just to not leave this standing.

An air pocket (or any gas) being heated would be what is called an isochoric expansion, basically meaning constant volume (at least unless it explodes). It does not involve a state change (e.g. liquid to gas), so the pressure change is proportional to the temperature change (in kelvin).

If there was an air pocket then in a rock with normal atmosphere in it, and you heated the rock to about a thousand degrees F, baking it in a very hot oven, the pressure would go up by about.... wait for it....

About 30 psi, or increase by about the pressure in your car tire. Hardly going to shadow any rocks. There's dozens of physics sites out there where you can check my math.

The reason the exploding rocks story is a bit plausible is it involves a state change - water going from liquid to steam. When that occurs, the pressure can easily shatter rocks. But getting a rock that has a pocket of liquid, that doesn't have any openings into it to let out the water/steam, that doesn't just crack as it heats, AND getting it above its internal boiling temperature in a pot of boiling water...

I agree, call myth busters. If for no other reason I love watching them blow things up.

But please do understand -- I AM agreeing that a rock in an oven could, just possibly, blow up. You'd still have to have all those other conditions, but an oven could reach the necessary temperatures.

Now... if you inject something like pure alcohol inside of a pocket in the rock, and seal it up... that could boil in boiling water. But wait... that's giving the plot away for mythbusters!

 

[Delapool]

Quite intriguing - I'll have to see if I can find anything.

As a kid we had buried rocks explode on basically buried camp fire coals. Something like a Hangi below.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hāngi

From memory the rocks were volcanic (basalt) ball-like shapes rather like a cannon ball. Rocks were dry but the rocks had weathered concentrically. I can't remember what caused the rocks to explode. From memory pieces used to explode off the outer edge of the rock (rather than cracking), and Dad thought the concentric weathering was the problem. The noise was quite loud and exciting, although picking bits of stone out of the food less so

 

[gardnaaa]

What about the underground filters? Or canister filters? Is there such thing as a water cycler? Someone at work was telling me I would need one.. I've had your "basic" aquarium set ups before, but I want to do a better one this time around.


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[Delapool]

What about the underground filters? Or canister filters? Is there such thing as a water cycler? Someone at work was telling me I would need one.. I've had your "basic" aquarium set ups before, but I want to do a better one this time around.


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All the same really. A canister will generally be larger than a HOB but they all do the same thing mainly.

Best filtration you can do is weekly water changes imo.

 

[Linwood]

All the same really. A canister will generally be larger than a HOB but they all do the same thing mainly.

Best filtration you can do is weekly water changes imo.

Water changes will become part of your life, so do consider how to make them bearable, as if you avoid them when needed things go downhill very fast.

Canisters can be hidden underneath (if you have an underneath), HOB will always be visible. Canisters are generally more quiet than HOB, at least any of each I've seen, there may be exceptions.

Canisters do not need to be cleaned as often (much larger inside); HOB's are easier for most people to clean (I actually prefer cleaning a canister but lots of people find them awkward and heavy filled with water; I find it less messy as I can relocate the entire thing to a big sink).

Under-sand filters were more popular years ago, I had one, apparently they are no longer mainstream, but I cannot tell you why.

A "Water recycler" might have meant "filter" as in to prepare tap water for use? Usually an RO or RODI system (reverse osmosis deionization). For salt water generally considered a necessity, for fresh water not generally needed though many people with bad tap water will use them (or tap water way different from what the target fish like -- but aquarium fish are pretty adaptable).

That brings up water chemistry. Ignoring RODI water for a moment, you are best adapting to the PH and other attributes of your tap water, and NOT trying to alter it. There are exceptions -- if you had very acidic tap water you can make it a higher PH, but most people find tap water high (or too high) in PH and it is very difficult to lower it. But manufacturers will sell you lots of chemicals which claim to do that. And they do - usually temporarily or poorly. Get fish who can live in your tap water's chemistry (of course remove chlorine), as opposed to trying to "fix" it with chemicals.

The exception is that RODI water does fix anything -- but it comes at a price of hardware and then you have to add chemistry back in (it is effectively distilled water).

But as to a "recycler" I have no idea what that is, unless they just mean the HOB/Canister filters.

 

[BillD]

I really don't understand the aversion to bleach. I certainly wouldn't waste my time boiling rocks, when a simple bleach and water bath will accomplish the same if not more. As an oxidizer, bleach will soften or remove organic residues from rocks or any other hard substance that may go into the tank. I bleach everything; the tank, the substrate and decor, any hard filter parts, and sometimes even the plants.

 

[gardnaaa]

Water changes will become part of your life, so do consider how to make them bearable, as if you avoid them when needed things go downhill very fast.



Canisters can be hidden underneath (if you have an underneath), HOB will always be visible. Canisters are generally more quiet than HOB, at least any of each I've seen, there may be exceptions.



Canisters do not need to be cleaned as often (much larger inside); HOB's are easier for most people to clean (I actually prefer cleaning a canister but lots of people find them awkward and heavy filled with water; I find it less messy as I can relocate the entire thing to a big sink).



Under-sand filters were more popular years ago, I had one, apparently they are no longer mainstream, but I cannot tell you why.



A "Water recycler" might have meant "filter" as in to prepare tap water for use? Usually an RO or RODI system (reverse osmosis deionization). For salt water generally considered a necessity, for fresh water not generally needed though many people with bad tap water will use them (or tap water way different from what the target fish like -- but aquarium fish are pretty adaptable).



That brings up water chemistry. Ignoring RODI water for a moment, you are best adapting to the PH and other attributes of your tap water, and NOT trying to alter it. There are exceptions -- if you had very acidic tap water you can make it a higher PH, but most people find tap water high (or too high) in PH and it is very difficult to lower it. But manufacturers will sell you lots of chemicals which claim to do that. And they do - usually temporarily or poorly. Get fish who can live in your tap water's chemistry (of course remove chlorine), as opposed to trying to "fix" it with chemicals.



The exception is that RODI water does fix anything -- but it comes at a price of hardware and then you have to add chemistry back in (it is effectively distilled water).



But as to a "recycler" I have no idea what that is, unless they just mean the HOB/Canister filters.

Thank you for all the info, helped a lot. Planning on getting into starting a new tank soon, it's been awhile. Probably either freshwater or saltwater, but most likely fresh water. If I do freshwater I would like to do a planted tank. So I will have to research how to do that.. So much to learn lol


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[Linwood]

I really don't understand the aversion to bleach. I certainly wouldn't waste my time boiling rocks, when a simple bleach and water bath will accomplish the same if not more. As an oxidizer, bleach will soften or remove organic residues from rocks or any other hard substance that may go into the tank. I bleach everything; the tank, the substrate and decor, any hard filter parts, and sometimes even the plants.

Bleach is a great surface sanitizer, certainly the cheapest and most readily available, and it pretty much kills anything on the surface.

Rocks and driftwood, however, often have crevices and nooks and crannies that a bleach bath may miss, but that may become exposed once immersed and left in a tank for ages. Will it matter? Could anything be alive in there that could hurt the tank?

No idea, but I think many people use heat for that reason; it's also why it is still the weapon of choice for hospital instruments, though many current (electronic, plastic, etc.) cannot tolerate it.

A good alternative, in my opinion, is a strong pressure wash followed by a bleach bath. This has the additional benefit of making most rocks look better, and tends to open up such nooks and crannies.

Another reason for boiling, though, for things such as drift wood is that it tends to saturate the wood, and hastens the point at which it will sink. This is also true if you have floating rocks (before you laugh look up feather rock -- I spent 3 days simmering one to get it to sink).

 

[Brookster123]

For the record.. i do boil water, let it stand for a moment and soak rocks In the hot water.. this has worked well in many cases, i do think bleach would do an excellent job as well. I'd just rather leave the bleach on the shelf unless I really need it..

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[Quest84]

I really don't understand the aversion to bleach. I certainly wouldn't waste my time boiling rocks, when a simple bleach and water bath will accomplish the same if not more. As an oxidizer, bleach will soften or remove organic residues from rocks or any other hard substance that may go into the tank. I bleach everything; the tank, the substrate and decor, any hard filter parts, and sometimes even the plants.

you get backlash of using bleach and boiling from beginners honestly. It isn't from any fault of their own either, they simply don't know any better. The best way to sanitize your tank and make sure your not getting any nasty critters in there is still using bleach or boiling. If your spending upwards on $100 bucks on one fish (hopefully some reef guys/gals will chime in) your not going to chance putting any old rock into your tank. Bleach when it breaks down becomes common NaCl or table salt, so I don't really see what their issue with using it is.

 

[Brookster123]

boiling or hot water would be more attravtive in that If bleach is not properly countered or neutralized it can destroy your tank.. ask any one who botched a purigen regen.. ask any reefer who got so fed up with their tank pbitawa.... it may break down to whatever but it is serious business when it's in its active state or whatever scientific term you see fit..

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[Quest84]

boiling or hot water would be more attravtive in that If bleach is not properly countered or neutralized it can destroy your tank.. ask any one who botched a purigen regen.. ask any reefer who got so fed up with their tank pbitawa.... it may break down to whatever but it is serious business when it's in its active state or whatever scientific term you see fit..

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I see what your saying brook, but bleach really only needs to be rinsed really well under tap water and then left out in the sun to air dry. You only use a 1 part bleach to 9 parts water solution.

When diluted with water it actually breaks down relatively quickly. I do take the extra step and let whatever i'm cleaning sit in a bucket of water and prime but that's just for safe measure. We all have the prime on hand anyway

 

[Brookster123]

I see what your saying brook, but bleach really only needs to be rinsed really well under tap water and then left out in the sun to air dry. You only use a 1 part bleach to 9 parts water solution.

When diluted with water it actually breaks down relatively quickly. I do take the extra step and let whatever i'm cleaning sit in a bucket of water and prime but that's just for safe measure. We all have the prime on hand anyway

guess there's more than one way to disinfect a rock

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[Delapool]

I had a quick look through on boiling rocks and could find examples of rocks cracking but nothing exploding.

Ah, fish keeping - seems so simple! I guess either way you have to be careful and do some research.

I can't figure out what a water cycler is either. Unless it is referring to cycling a tank?

 

[icydeath]

I think they may explode when there is a trapped air pocket. Just put the lid on and it will take a lot longer to boil haha

 

[Eggheadfish]

To the OP:
Don't forget a power strip.
Heater + filter + light = 3 plug spaces. More if you run an air pump. I have stupidly forgotten this whilst setting up tanks thrice.

 

[Coursair]

Under gravel filters don't work with Sand or Plants.

Your HOB filter that you bought is a bit small for your tank. You usually want one rated for larger than your tank is because once you get all the media in and it starts running the flow rate drops significantly.

I'm a sand and plant gal




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[icydeath]

To the OP:
Don't forget a power strip.
Heater + filter + light = 3 plug spaces. More if you run an air pump. I have stupidly forgotten this whilst setting up tanks thrice.

Yeah, take it from Eggheadfish haha. It is a good piece of equipment. You will appreciate it when you question where all the outlets went