Caliban's AquaOpti 85L

[Caliban07]

Thanks for the heads up! I just re did my dosage and its ment to be 0.3g. I've been dosing 0.8 for 5 months!

Thank god you brought this to my attention. I would have to have a pretty serious build up by now!

Any signs of change in your tank yet?

I'm gonna have to do a 90% water change when I get home from work I think. I think the S.repens is finally coming round. That's about it really. The scum is pretty terrible.

So I should have been dosing about 0.5g a week. But I think I dosed 1.5g (can't remember whether I dosed twice or three times). I've done 3 x 50% water changes so worst case scenario I'm at EI levels about now which has still caused people issues. Let's remember my traces are more potent too and my water is soft. If this gets sorted out soon I'm gonna make a solution to dose 0.1ppm fe

 

[Bert2oo1]

So day 3 of not dosing micro's and I have already noticed some big changes. My ludwigi's have all uncurled there leaves and are even turning a brighter red. Very deep colour close to the stem.

ST repens seem to have brightened up aswell.

My GH and KH are both sitting at 5 for your references caliban.

 

[Caliban07]

Cal's Aquaopti 85L

Cheers bud that's great news. I'm just hoping mine turns around soon.

Any before and after pics [emoji2]

Edit: you can save them for your thread if you like [emoji846]

 

[Bert2oo1]

Cal's Aquaopti 85L

Cheers bud that's great news. I'm just hoping mine turns around soon.

Any before and after pics [emoji2]

Before:

After:

I must note there is a weeks growth between these photos. But until 3 days ago all the new growth leaves looked like the first picture.

 

[Caliban07]

I'm just wondering. If you guys are around I'd like to hear from Brookster and fresh RE micro dosing and water GH/KH.

Fresh I know is lean on nutrients dosing with PPS-Pro.

Also I spoke to Rastaman. He says his water is liquid rock so he cuts it with RO but GH/KH is still fairly high.

By no means am I trying to deduct from the dedication and hard work of these tanks that gets them all looking so well. It's not like I'm saying 'these guys only do well because they are lean dosers and have high toxicity protection' this thread hadn't taken the direction I was hoping it would and I'm just trying to get a better understanding of things.

 

[Bert2oo1]

The thing I find the most interesting is the fact that a lot of people have said about toxicity levels when dosing EI and now all of a sudden rotala has changed its dosage of micro's to less than half of what was recommended when I first started my tank. I do believe the website was offline a few weeks back, maybe that's when they changed it?

 

[Caliban07]

The thing I find the most interesting is the fact that a lot of people have said about toxicity levels when dosing EI and now all of a sudden rotala has changed its dosage of micro's to less than half of what was recommended when I first started my tank. I do believe the website was offline a few weeks back, maybe that's when they changed it?

I noticed the same thing. Its very possible.

 

[Fresh2o]

I had a lot of catching up to do. ️
Interesting observations on potential toxicity. So much for dosing EI and throwing out the test kit. I'm going to be honest here. I have not used my test kit in over a year. At least I don't remember testing anything. I've used the pH reagent for adding color to the drop checker indicator fluid. I do use the TDS meter from time to time.
Yes, I do err on the leaner side with PPS-Pro. I tripled the phosphate and removed the KNO3 from the macro mix. I am still dosing the micros at the standard dose although I hear that the GLA dosing for micros is maybe 1/10th of what it used to be (I got the PPS-Pro from GLA 2 years ago).
I do see curling with the Ludwigia, especially as it gets closer to the light. Redder, yes, but the curling persists. Other plants looks fine. Pogo erectus, when happy have long needles and there is a hint of yellow near the new growth. I'm kind of attached to this because I got it emersed and it melted completely down to nubs and I have to baby those for what it seemed like months before I got it to grow.
As for the surface scum, I read somewhere that it is often more than just protein buildup. Colonies of bacteria can exist and grow, contributing to its thickness. It was suggested that spraying H2O2 should kill the bacteria and help dissipate the scum. I get it from time to time but it has not been a concern.

 

[Caliban07]

Cal's Aquaopti 85L

I had a lot of catching up to do. ️
Interesting observations on potential toxicity. So much for dosing EI and throwing out the test kit. I'm going to be honest here. I have not used my test kit in over a year. At least I don't remember testing anything. I've used the pH reagent for adding color to the drop checker indicator fluid. I do use the TDS meter from time to time.
Yes, I do err on the leaner side with PPS-Pro. I tripled the phosphate and removed the KNO3 from the macro mix. I am still dosing the micros at the standard dose although I hear that the GLA dosing for micros is maybe 1/10th of what it used to be (I got the PPS-Pro from GLA 2 years ago).
I do see curling with the Ludwigia, especially as it gets closer to the light. Redder, yes, but the curling persists. Other plants looks fine. Pogo erectus, when happy have long needles and there is a hint of yellow near the new growth. I'm kind of attached to this because I got it emersed and it melted completely down to nubs and I have to baby those for what it seemed like months before I got it to grow.
As for the surface scum, I read somewhere that it is often more than just protein buildup. Colonies of bacteria can exist and grow, contributing to its thickness. It was suggested that spraying H2O2 should kill the bacteria and help dissipate the scum. I get it from time to time but it has not been a concern.

Thanks. Do you know what the target value for iron is when using PPS-Pro. Is FE used as a proxy with this method.

I think it's much more difficult (from what I have read) to induce a macro toxicity but perhaps it's the interaction between macros and micro that can have an effect rather than just micros.

@Bert2oo1 did you also reduce macros some?

1/10th is way down there. I wonder why these companies are changing their dosing.

It would be very interesting if you could knock back the micros to the new guidelines and see if the ludwigia uncurl. Funnily enough my ludwigia is the only plant that is doing well but we are all dosing different amounts of everything.

Cyano, lack of nitrates, low flow, low o2?
BBA, low flow, fluctuating co2, high organics?
GSA low phosphates?

Or is it micro toxicity?

Edit: Fresh it would also be interesting if you noticed any other changes cutting micros back. Many are convinced that we don't know we have toxicities because we don't know what we are looking for.

RE surface scum. It definitely is unwanted. A great place for nasty bacteria.

I have 3 cherry barbs
3 harlequins
3 ottos
And 1 cardinal

Surely that is not enough to pollute. Especially with 50% water changes? I'm sure it's the micros.

 

[Caliban07]

Monte Carlo seems more green than brown tonight. Still some browning on the new leaves but it looks as though they are taking longer to brown.

S.repens has definitely perked up now and is showing some growth.

The fish seem happy and the ottos have had about a week and a half of pure feasting. They're all over the Monte Carlo 24/7 so they must be helping.

Big water change coming up.....

 

[Bert2oo1]

Cal's Aquaopti 85L

Monte Carlo seems more green than brown tonight. Still some browning on the new leaves but it looks as though they are taking longer to brown.

S.repens has definitely perked up now and is showing some growth.

The fish seem happy and the ottos have had about a week and a half of pure feasting. They're all over the Monte Carlo 24/7 so they must be helping.

Big water change coming up.....

I did in fact drop my kno3 dosing back back 0.5grams this week (from 1.5 to 1g) 4 times a week. After upping the dosage 2 weeks ago I ended up with blooms of 3 different types of algae. I also 4x the phosphates but I am continuing to dose this. After my 50% water change 4 days ago I haven't dosed micro's and have gone back to dosing 1g kno3 1g of phosphate.
GSA hasn't come back so far (took 2 weeks to appear after changing kno3 last time)
BBA is slowly dying out (I've been zapping with excel most days)
Hair algae is gone completely (I had to remove 1 plant as it was very infested)

My issue may not be a toxicity issue as such and more of the kno3 was too high. However even before I upped the kno3 my ludwigi leaves were twisted and now there not. So it is possible I was touching on the edge of a toxicity issue.
Haven't noticed any change in the melted crypt so far but that will be the biggest test for this toxicity problem I feel. ( has been melted for 4 months) it's right at the front of the tank in direct flow from where I dose all my ferts.

If I go off the OLD rotala calculator then I would have been dosing close to 1.5ppm of iron per week. (Not to mention other nutrients) I read on another forum that study's had been done and found that iron becomes toxic at around 1.65ppm. Maybe this is why it's changed. Maybe people have decided that EI flys very close to the toxicity level and due to ruff measurement and uptake of substrate etc people have been going over the line of toxicity.

Just a thought

 

[Caliban07]

I did in fact drop my kno3 dosing back back 0.5grams this week (from 1.5 to 1g) 4 times a week. After upping the dosage 2 weeks ago I ended up with blooms of 3 different types of algae. I also 4x the phosphates but I am continuing to dose this. After my 50% water change 4 days ago I haven't dosed micro's and have gone back to dosing 1g kno3 1g of phosphate.
GSA hasn't come back so far (took 2 weeks to appear after changing kno3 last time)
BBA is slowly dying out (I've been zapping with excel most days)
Hair algae is gone completely (I had to remove 1 plant as it was very infested)

My issue may not be a toxicity issue as such and more of the kno3 was too high. However even before I upped the kno3 my ludwigi leaves were twisted and now there not. So it is possible I was touching on the edge of a toxicity issue.
Haven't noticed any change in the melted crypt so far but that will be the biggest test for this toxicity problem I feel. ( has been melted for 4 months) it's right at the front of the tank in direct flow from where I dose all my ferts.

If I go off the OLD rotala calculator then I would have been dosing close to 1.5ppm of iron per week. (Not to mention other nutrients) I read on another forum that study's had been done and found that iron becomes toxic at around 1.65ppm. Maybe this is why it's changed. Maybe people have decided that EI flys very close to the toxicity level and due to ruff measurement and uptake of substrate etc people have been going over the line of toxicity.

Just a thought

Thanks for the thorough response. I think it could be a combination things lead by micro toxicity. Will have to see. Surely I am due a positive response now?

Did a 70% water change last night. Will have to wait until I get home to check. I'm going to knock together a solution tonight to target 0.1ppm of iron and dose it every 4 days. Not sure when I will dose yet.

 

[Bert2oo1]

Thanks for the thorough response. I think it could be a combination things lead by micro toxicity. Will have to see. Surely I am due a positive response now?

Did a 70% water change last night. Will have to wait until I get home to check. I'm going to knock together a solution tonight to target 0.1ppm of iron and dose it every 4 days. Not sure when I will dose yet.

Yea I'm starting to see some deficiencies in iron now on the AR mini and the repens. A little bit of tip browning and the AR has black crack like marks in the leaves. I'm going to hold off for abit longer though. Might start again Saturday. I want to hold off abit just to see what the deficiency looks like so I know what to look for if it ever happens again.

Has been an interesting little adventure haha

I'll be dosing 0.3g of Aquagreen am grow nutrient mix 3 times a week.

 

[Caliban07]

Yea I'm starting to see some deficiencies in iron now on the AR mini and the repens. A little bit of tip browning and the AR has black crack like marks in the leaves. I'm going to hold off for abit longer though. Might start again Saturday. I want to hold off abit just to see what the deficiency looks like so I know what to look for if it ever happens again.

Has been an interesting little adventure haha

I'll be dosing 0.3g of Aquagreen am grow nutrient mix 3 times a week.

Yeah I'm a bit worried about going too far the other way. I can't have much trace now. I could use some pure water to make up the mix though.

 

[Bert2oo1]

So when the lights came on yesterday the ludwigi has curled again! I haven't dosed any micro's at all this week so maybe it's time to start dosing again.

Has been an interesting experiment. The tank has held up very well over the week of no dosing (shows how overkill I've been) I'd say my substrate was Full of micro's. Another interesting observation is no new BBA has appeared since not dosing the micro's.

This makes me believe that excess organics is in fact a big trigger for BBA.

 

[Caliban07]

So when the lights came on yesterday the ludwigi has curled again! I haven't dosed any micro's at all this week so maybe it's time to start dosing again.

Has been an interesting experiment. The tank has held up very well over the week of no dosing (shows how overkill I've been) I'd say my substrate was Full of micro's. Another interesting observation is no new BBA has appeared since not dosing the micro's.

This makes me believe that excess organics is in fact a big trigger for BBA.

Interesting observations. I have no improvements. I've just planted some Monte Carlo in to a tub of gravel. If it dies then I have other issues not related to ferts. If it thrives then my eco complete is a toxic mess.

 

[Autumnsky]

Are you running Purigen in there? Maybe add carbon for a couple days to take up any toxicity.

 

[Caliban07]

Thanks. I think the toxicity is in the substrate though so I'm just ruling that out first. If it ain't that then I'm not entirely sure what the next step is.

 

[Bert2oo1]

Thanks. I think the toxicity is in the substrate though so I'm just ruling that out first. If it ain't that then I'm not entirely sure what the next step is.

Do you think maybe you got a defective bag of substrate? Maybe they put a really concentrated lot of nutrients in there by accident? I find it crazy that all your water changes haven't fixed the problem. All the micro's u dosed would be long gone by now.

Thinking back to when I started my tank the slick was pretty bad but not as bad as yours.(took a few months to clear up)

Are your plants still in ruff shape?

 

[Caliban07]

Do you think maybe you got a defective bag of substrate? Maybe they put a really concentrated lot of nutrients in there by accident? I find it crazy that all your water changes haven't fixed the problem. All the micro's u dosed would be long gone by now.

Thinking back to when I started my tank the slick was pretty bad but not as bad as yours.(took a few months to clear up)

Are your plants still in ruff shape?

I doubt it. I don't think eco complete has nutrients in it. At least they are not bio-available to plants. It just has a very high cation exchange capacity which mean it attracts and holds nutrients to it. Soil has the same benefits only it contains all the micro nutrients the plants need and organic matter which can protect and bind against toxicity. I think the eco may have attracted and is holding the micros causing toxic effects. I know at least two people on the toxicity wagon said they had to change substrates before things got better so I'm trying to prove it.

I have some MC in a shallow container with just straight gravel. If the MC carpets the tub under the same conditions (tub is inside the tank) then the eco complete is toxic. If not then I have another issue.