Clear poop, bad?

[Andy Sager]

Double check....

Came up with 8-8.2...my tank has usually been that high! i guess its not ph

Double check your reagent if you've had it a while. Have your LFS do a PH test for you. 8-8.2 is kinda high for freshwater tanks. Neutral (7.0) is recommended and I know most of the fish raised here in FL go as high as 7.6-7.8. PH in the 8s is getting into SW fish range.
The epsom salt bath would be another way to go if the symptoms don't respond to a PH change.

Good luck

 

[Gboy66]

Double check your reagent if you've had it a while. Have your LFS do a PH test for you. 8-8.2 is kinda high for freshwater tanks. Neutral (7.0) is recommended and I know most of the fish raised here in FL go as high as 7.6-7.8. PH in the 8s is getting into SW fish range.
The epsom salt bath would be another way to go if the symptoms don't respond to a PH change.

Good luck

Thanks i know my dang ph is high, but heck, my german blue ram is thriving right now!!

The salt bath seems to be my only option..

 

[bs6749]

A pH of 8.4 is not unreasonable at all for freshwater fish. I've kept and bred rams, angels, and discus in a pH of 8.0-8.2 with extremely hard water (300+ppm). Captive bred fish can thrive in a broad pH range.

To say that neutral is recommended has little basis. There are a variety of freshwater fish and some would do better in an acidic pH as opposed to more alkaline conditions. Discus for example are commonly found in soft, acidic water in the wild. Domestically bred discus can thrive in a pH anywhere from 5.0-8.5. If I had a choice, I would keep the water for them acidic because many microorganisms do not grow around or below a pH of 5.5 and the low pH also helps to convert ammonia to ammonium ion (as a result of the free hydronium ions in solution) and this means that ammonia toxicity is of little worry in an acidic environment because ammonia will not be present in a harmful state. An acidic environment also makes it easier to rear fry for these same reasons.

 

[Andy Sager]

It might be...

Thanks i know my dang ph is high, but heck, my german blue ram is thriving right now!!

The salt bath seems to be my only option..

That this is a situation where the 2 types of fish you are keeping come from different water requirements and not a good mix. That's not to say that the 2 species dont get along. What I mean is that they may have come from 2 different environments that make them not a good mix in the same tank.

Best of luck

 

[Andy Sager]

It's situational

A pH of 8.4 is not unreasonable at all for freshwater fish. I've kept and bred rams, angels, and discus in a pH of 8.0-8.2 with extremely hard water (300+ppm). Captive bred fish can thrive in a broad pH range.

To say that neutral is recommended has little basis. There are a variety of freshwater fish and some would do better in an acidic pH as opposed to more alkaline conditions. Discus for example are commonly found in soft, acidic water in the wild. Domestically bred discus can thrive in a pH anywhere from 5.0-8.5. If I had a choice, I would keep the water for them acidic because many microorganisms do not grow around or below a pH of 5.5 and the low pH also helps to convert ammonia to ammonium ion (as a result of the free hydronium ions in solution) and this means that ammonia toxicity is of little worry in an acidic environment because ammonia will not be present in a harmful state. An acidic environment also makes it easier to rear fry for these same reasons.

This is where you need to separate the domestically raised fish from the wild caught ones. If you were to take a wild discus and put him in 8.4 water, if he didn't die from the shock he would lower the the PH to a more natural level. I've seen this multiple times in my Discus breeding room. My partner tried to adjust the fish to Florida's alkeline water but the fish made it acidic within 48 hours. It is possible that many generations later, the domestically raised Discus don't do this anymore. Keeping an aquarium at a neutral PH gives the fish that are being raised in each extreme the ability to coexist with little harm to each other.
Your experience may be coming from non wild specimens and I don't doubt that you have had success. I was addressing this one tank in this one situation.

 

[Gboy66]

Noo!!! they are NOT doing good.

Both wont move, wont swim, and their colors are fading and turning..brown! Neither will really touch all the peas i throw in, and they are getting skinny.

Aldo, their buttholes (any better way to put this??) are reddish? Definitly constipation.

How do i help?! Should i do the salt bath?! My poor little guys just drfit around and spazz out swimming into walls

 

[Gboy66]

Some one i need some help! Ill be treatig soon!

I think im going to do an epsom salt bath. Any more info about it? I have read that people do it for angels do thats good!

Also, after the bath, do i put him right back into the tank, or acclimate him back into the tank??

 

[jlk]

Give the epsom salt bath a try! Immediately stick them back into the tank after the bath or if they start to roll/flip/serious distress. Im so sorry they are not doing good! Are they eating anything or have they stopped eating altogether? If they are not eating at all, you should consider treating their water with metro & prazi- its not as efficient when compared to ingesting it but its worth a shot.

 

[Gboy66]

Give the epsom salt bath a try! Immediately stick them back into the tank after the bath or if they start to roll/flip/serious distress. Im so sorry they are not doing good! Are they eating anything or have they stopped eating altogether? If they are not eating at all, you should consider treating their water with metro & prazi- its not as efficient when compared to ingesting it but its worth a shot.

Thanks..

Both have stopped eating entirely..

Should i treat both in the same container at the same time?

Were can i buy the kind to just dose the water with? I dont know if itd be worth it to buy the food kind if they wont even eat!

Could their constipation just go away eventually like humans? I hope so im bummed

 

[jlk]

Thanks..

Both have stopped eating entirely..

Should i treat both in the same container at the same time?

Were can i buy the kind to just dose the water with? I dont know if itd be worth it to buy the food kind if they wont even eat!

Could their constipation just go away eventually like humans? I hope so im bummed

Yep, same container is fine! I would use a 5gal bucket so they have a bit of room to swim. Predissolve the epsom salts in a 1/2 cup of warm water- they can be a pain in the butt to dissolve & then add it to the bucket. My lfs carries both metro & prazi for the water- you can also order both metro for the water & Prazipro from Drsfoster&Smith online. Theres a few other places that sell both- ill see if i can find a link.

Hopefully, constipation is all it is & not something more serious!

 

[Gboy66]

Yep, same container is fine! I would use a 5gal bucket so they have a bit of room to swim. Predissolve the epsom salts in a 1/2 cup of warm water- they can be a pain in the butt to dissolve & then add it to the bucket. My lfs carries both metro & prazi for the water- you can also order both metro for the water & Prazipro from Drsfoster&Smith online. Theres a few other places that sell both- ill see if i can find a link.

Hopefully, constipation is all it is & not something more serious!

I have a 1/2 gallon container, is that fine? I am going to just treat one angel..im scared of killing both!!!

Thanks! Wish me luck!

 

[jlk]

Heres 2 other places that sell both meto & prazi- not sure if the links are right but I put their names just in case. I am not positive if DRsFoster & Smith still sells both...

National Fish Pharmaceuticals
FISH DISEASE DIAGNOSIS & FISH DISEASE TREATMENTS

American Aquarium Products
American Aquarium Products; Aquatic & Pond Supplies & Ocean Decor in Oregon.

Drs Foster & Smith
Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies, Pet Meds | DrsFosterSmith.com Pet Products

 

[jlk]

I have a 1/2 gallon container, is that fine? I am going to just treat one angel..im scared of killing both!!!

Thanks! Wish me luck!

1/2g then 1/2 teasp of epsom salts- just make sure its deep enough so she can swim a bit. Good luck!!!!

 

[Gboy66]

Ok! One angel done!

Poor little guy is gasping in the tank with clamped fins, but thats expected. I will do gabriel (my older angel) soon, after i see how bait (younger) reacts to the treatment. Hopefully all goes well.

Bait didnt poop the whole time, but he was swimming around alot more!

 

[jlk]

Yes, def keep an eye on them after you add them back to the tank- watch to see if they poop or not. It may take a little bit for the lax action to take effect if constipation is the issue here.

 

[Gboy66]

Yes, def keep an eye on them after you add them back to the tank- watch to see if they poop or not. It may take a little bit for the lax action to take effect if constipation is the issue here.

Housten, we have no poop...

 

[jlk]

Oh, boy.... Give them another hour or two of observation & order some meds in the meantime if your lfs doesnt carry them.

 

[Gboy66]

Oh, boy.... Give them another hour or two of observation & order some meds in the meantime if your lfs doesnt carry them.

K. So you recommend the food kind? Or maybe the liquid?

Im just nit sure i could get them to eat it!!

 

[jlk]

If they are not eating, theres no sense in getting the med food except to have it on hand for future use (which is a good idea) or if they decide its time to start eating again you can switch from treating the water to treating them. Treating the water is pretty much your only option if they refuse to eat.

 

[Gboy66]

If they are not eating, theres no sense in getting the med food except to have it on hand for future use (which is a good idea) or if they decide its time to start eating again you can switch from treating the water to treating them. Treating the water is pretty much your only option if they refuse to eat.

Got it! Is it less effective?

My poor buddy gabriel..im sure he'd be thanking you all if he could!!