Columnaris?? Sick Lambchops

[Jaeroo]

Recently bought 5 lambchop rasboras and immediately noticed that two of them looked like they had fin rot. I tested Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates and they were all 0. One died the other morning so now I'm down to four (the one in the pictures with the white spot on the dorsal fin has passed). One now has a milky white film over his eye. My ph is 7.8 and I'm starting to think it's Columnaris since it thrives in high ph and one of my fish died practically overnight. I've done a lot of reading and need more opinions on how to treat this before it gets out of hand. They were originally in a planted 20g and I moved them all to a 4g and dosed 2mL Melafix (it was what I had on hand). Some people have had success with the Melafix and some have not. I haven't seen any improvement nor have they gotten worse. I'm still not exactly sure what it is either, so if you think it may look like something else please let me know. If it is columnaris, then i was thinking of adding aquarium salt to the 20g to kill it. I read that they will die from 1% salinity but I'm not sure how long it will take and if the plants can handle it. Has anyone had experience with this? Also, I was thinking of adding Hydrogen peroxide instead. It seems like a safer way to go. Please, share your advice!

Sorry the pics aren't great. They move fast!

 

[ImACoolguy]

*calling Bandit*

I'm no expert on columnaris I'm fighting it myself first.

If it is columnaris:

1. A salt bath of 1 tablespoon per 5g will be good. I would ONLY do this in your quarantine tank away from the live plants just in case. The salt will buffer their slime coat just incase there is something indeed wrong.

2. The "Fix's" don't work with columnaris.

3. Lots of water changes.


Caleb

 

[Delapool]

I'd just go for furan 2 and skip the H2O2. I've only seen it used once and it all sounded fiddly plus it doesn't last long in the water column with filtration going.

 

[ImACoolguy]

I'd just go for furan 2 and skip the H2O2. I've only seen it used once and it all sounded fiddly plus it doesn't last long in the water column with filtration going.

+1 mine came in this morning


Caleb

 

[Jaeroo]

*calling Bandit*

I'm no expert on columnaris I'm fighting it myself first.

If it is columnaris:

1. A salt bath of 1 tablespoon per 5g will be good. I would ONLY do this in your quarantine tank away from the live plants just in case. The salt will buffer their slime coat just incase there is something indeed wrong.

2. The "Fix's" don't work with columnaris.

3. Lots of water changes.


Caleb

I'd just go for furan 2 and skip the H2O2. I've only seen it used once and it all sounded fiddly plus it doesn't last long in the water column with filtration going.

Do you guys think salt alone will kill it? I'm asking because I don't know when I'll be able to get Furan 2. Also, I heard that the columnaris can survive a month without a host and it may be in my planted 20g. How would I get the columnaris out of that? I can't really remove the plants and my tank is dirted if that limits my options on what to do here. I guess the latter option would be to wait a month for it to die off, but then I won't know if it's gone for sure.

 

[Matt68005]

Salt alone will not kill columnaris, IF thats what it is. But Kanamycin or Terramycin do, quite well actually.
Antibiotic Fish Flake Food

 

[coralbandit]

Salt away!
The first dose (step 1 ) for columanris is salt.
Possibly not in the planted tank?
If you treat fish in Qt then leave tank fallow at least 30 days if not a week or 2 more.
It is cheap,availble and can be dosed fairly easily.
I'm not a salt guy but many links are all on it.
I am fish first so choose who will die first yourself .
I have live plants and unless something special compared to fish they are not first to me but I will mention if what I suggest is known to cause trouble to what ever if I know?(knowledge is power).
You (your fish) look to have common columnaris with the fuzz and all so should be no big deal and is not the overnight killer as other strains.
How do you treat your water for water changes?
Both you and Caleb could do your waterchanges adding back new unteated water for 10-15 minutes and then add the conditioner(like a free 15 minute treatment(anyone know Tolak(John)?)
This is his "free" advice and I don't really see a problem with it?
Youneed to be watching fish during this...
Why would you not be able to get meds Jaeroo?

 

[skylane]

I bought some of the these too, and some of them died. But these ones I bought were small in comparison to yours. The ones that died had the same problem but I put them in the community tank and I'm just observing for now and my other fish. These fish can't handle stress as much when you first introduce them to your tank so I will use a better method next time. Right now the fish are fine and it seems not to be spreading in the tank and I hope that works out for your tank too. Oh and by the way my tank is planted too and I would hate to use chemicals and medicines as much possible . I'm going to build a 75gal or 90 soon and I've learned so much from the people here !!!

 

[Jaeroo]

Bandit, I'm able to get them, just not as soon as I would like because I would probably have to order it.

Unfortunately, another lambchop passed away yesterday. After a few minutes of careful inspection, the rest of the lambchops look fine. No fungus or discolored spots. I'll probably keep them in qt for another week or so just to make sure.

Despite being told that Melafix doesn't work, I've been dosing 2mL once a day anyway because it should only do them good, right? The least it could do is not work. Salt is currently in there, about 2 teaspoons worth because the tank is only 3.7g. Feeding them regular tetra fish flakes for now. One of the lambs is darting to the top and gulping air/making bubbles. I think it's just stressed out along with not having enough oxygen so I put an airstone in there and am keeping the moonlight on.

Another thing. I read this article about columnaris and was told that it grows in tanks even if the infected fish has been removed (but it can only survive for so long without a host). It was described as a white fungus-looking thing that waves/moves with the current. I have dw and there is fungus growing on that (which isn't columnaris), but there was also white fungus-looking stuff growing on top of my substrate. It looked different from the fungus on the dw and I'm wondering if it was columnaris at all? Is it common for dirt to grow fungus? That would be the only explanation I have to why it's there besides being columnaris. Anywho, it's now starting to get brown, which I'm assuming that means it's dying? (whatever it is) I trimmed and planted yesterday and tried getting some of it off the ground and have been seeing less and less of it without new growth. The tank is currently stocked with about a 3+ dozen uninvited pond snails and they are actually cleaning the dw fungus up nicely so I'm not complaining . First I saw one, then the next day I see ten like what these guys mean business. Nothing an assassin can't handle so I'm not worried.

 

[coralbandit]

Columnaris is documented to live 32 days without a host(your fish).
I don't think you would ever to able to see it "off the fish" like when it is on the fish.
Can you link the info you read ,I try to read all on columnaris .
The "fungas " and exploding snail population makes me ask if you are overfeeding?
Overfeeding will cause all sorts of troubles.
The pictures of your tank look very nice, but I still had to ask.

 

[Delapool]

Plus one.

Ime mela and pima won't cure it.

Acriflavine / MG will peg it back / clean it up but I've never managed a cure with it. Come close but had high temps as well so lost cause. Waterlife myxazin I like as it uses small compounding doses rather than one large dose every 3 days.

Oxidisers like PP or H202 people have had success with. The guy using H202 said it worked but he had air con problems so room got too hot and he lost fish.

Water changes are always handy. There was an article that found increased organic matter results in worse bacterial infections.

Salt I've taken to 3 tablespoons per gallon and maybe it cleans the infection up but didn't cure.

Maintaining stable, slightly lower than normal temperature is critical.

Triple sulpha I've had work. Tetracycline absolutely useless.

Then really into antibiotics like furan 2 and kanaplax combined. Or other antibiotics in medicated food.

Early treatment is essential.

One fish infected could be fungal or bacterial as the two can be hard to tell apart. Multiple infected fish is very likely bacterial always.

 

[coralbandit]

Ime mela and pima won't cure it.

Early treatment is essential.

One fish infected could be fungal or bacterial as the two can be hard to tell apart. Multiple infected fish is very likely bacterial always.

I agree on the fixes.
I don't use them.
Early treatment is always best and most effective(before the disease has time to grow strong).
And not always true but USAULLY fungal issue develop on or from an injury,while bacterial issues are the "injury".

 

[Delapool]

The research I've done for mela and pima suggests they are hit and miss on working. And lots of people just give them a miss. For a serious infection it wouldn't be my first choice. I think that is the consensus on here?


On the other hand for a cheap treatment in a large planted tank for a fish that is "off colour" I do like it.


Sometimes a good result. But to be honest I'm always surprised when people report they have worked for columnaris.

 

[Jaeroo]

Update: The three of them are acting normal and have no discoloration or spots on them. They are super skittish because the tank is so empty and small. I've done a 50% wc and they seemed to perk up a bit more. My tank has been fallow for over a week and a half except for a ton of pond snails and three ghosties. Should I put the lambchops back in the 20? I feel like they would be so much better off going back home where they feel safe.