Confusing results!

[Aquariumfish123]

Hey everybody! Im cycling a 10 gal and it should be almost cycled, but these results are very confusing, here they are:


.25 Ammo

0 Nitrites

5 Nitrates


Also, there is a little less than .25 ammo in my tap. It has been fish-in cycling for a month now. What confuses me is why there is no nitrates and why ammo is .25 and why i have 5 nitrates! Could it be stalled somehow? BTW, the ammo has been .25 for a few days now.

 

[Rak9378]

Can you provide more info? What type of fish and how many are in the tank? How high has ammonia gone? Have you seen any increase in nitrite or has it always been zero? What is your pH and any other water parameters that you know ? The more info you provide the better!

 

[Mifsud]

It very well could already by cycled and the frequent water changes from your fish-in cycle are keeping the nitrates down.

How often did you test for ammonia concentration in the last month? What was the highest value for ammonia concentration that you tested in the last month?

 

[Maridia]

Also, what kind of test kit are you using? Api liquid test kits are better than the test strips.

 

[jwh0818]

He is using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit

 

[Aquariumfish123]

Hey everyone! sorry I couldnt get back earlier! Ok, There is only a Betta in the 10 gal. I used cycled media from my 50 gal also.

 

[Aquariumfish123]

Can you provide more info? What type of fish and how many are in the tank? How high has ammonia gone? Have you seen any increase in nitrite or has it always been zero? What is your pH and any other water parameters that you know ? The more info you provide the better!

Hi! I only have a betta. ammo has only been as high as .50 (educated guess). PH is 7.6. Nitrites seems to be holding at 0 and three days in a row the trates have been at about 5.

Sorry for the lack of info! Hey, if theres anything else you need to know, just ask

 

[Rak9378]

Are you using Prime or any other ammonia binding product? If so how I often are you dosing it? Since you used seeded filter media it's possible the tank cycled and you just never saw nitrites. Especially since ammonia is holding steady at .25 and there are no nitrites. I'm wondering if the ammonia reading is a false positive...that's why I'm asking if you're currently dosing Prime or something similar.

 

[threnjen]

Are you using Prime or any other ammonia binding product? If so how I often are you dosing it? Since you used seeded filter media it's possible the tank cycled and you just never saw nitrites. Especially since ammonia is holding steady at .25 and there are no nitrites. I'm wondering if the ammonia reading is a false positive...that's why I'm asking if you're currently dosing Prime or something similar.

Prime doesn't have anything in it that will create an ammonia reading. This is one of those things where "false positive" gets passed around and I think everyone just misunderstands. Add it to our list of stuff to talk about in our science topics Been researching this one off and on lately. I don't think any addition of a dechlor is creating an ammonia reading where there isn't one in the water already. If it measures .25 then that is in there somewhere.

 

[Aquariumfish123]

Hey everyone! Yes I do use prime, but I agree that it wouldn't affect readings. I didn't test today, but I defiantly test soon

 

[Rak9378]

Thren - I assume you have seen this on Seachem's website...

A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away. However, the best solution is to use our MultiTest: Ammonia™ kit... it uses a gas exchange sensor system which is not affected by the presence of Prime® or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (which is both the free and ionized forms of ammonia (the ionized form is not toxic)).

I have gone back and forth on this as well. This isn't the most detailed of responses. If what they are referring to is just the difference between NH3 and NH4 then saying its a false positive is totally misleading. But I'm not convinced that is what they are saying. I actually posted on Seachem's forum asking for a more detailed explanation. Unfortunately I haven't received a response yet. So I started doing some of my own digging. I haven't found anything that I would point to as concrete scientific evidence, but I did find some info that is interesting and that I need to look into more. So Prime contains something called sodium thiosulfate (or some derivative of it that allows them to call it proprietary). Apparently the sodium thiosulfate can have a reaction with the chloride ion that is part of the test reagents and this can result in a false positive. Again I'm not 100% sure of this but so far this is what I have come up with. I would be happy to make this another scientific topic for us to explore!

In addition I have also seen actual situations where it would appear that prime was giving a false reading. Tank appears to have gone through the cycle but for some reason low levels of ammonia are detected. Person is dosing prime to detoxify the ammonia. Once they stop dosing ammonia goes away. You have see this thread before but for the benefit of anyone else reading this.....

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302203

Back to the OP here...out of curiosity how often are you dosing prime? What kind of filter are you running? If it's not the prime and there is actually .25 of ammonia in your tank I'm struggling to figure out what could be causing it.

 

[Rak9378]

Sorry, full link to my Seachem quote

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html

 

[threnjen]

Rak start a new thread, I want to talk about it!

 

[Aquariumfish123]

Thren - I assume you have seen this on Seachem's website...



I have gone back and forth on this as well. This isn't the most detailed of responses. If what they are referring to is just the difference between NH3 and NH4 then saying its a false positive is totally misleading. But I'm not convinced that is what they are saying. I actually posted on Seachem's forum asking for a more detailed explanation. Unfortunately I haven't received a response yet. So I started doing some of my own digging. I haven't found anything that I would point to as concrete scientific evidence, but I did find some info that is interesting and that I need to look into more. So Prime contains something called sodium thiosulfate (or some derivative of it that allows them to call it proprietary). Apparently the sodium thiosulfate can have a reaction with the chloride ion that is part of the test reagents and this can result in a false positive. Again I'm not 100% sure of this but so far this is what I have come up with. I would be happy to make this another scientific topic for us to explore!

In addition I have also seen actual situations where it would appear that prime was giving a false reading. Tank appears to have gone through the cycle but for some reason low levels of ammonia are detected. Person is dosing prime to detoxify the ammonia. Once they stop dosing ammonia goes away. You have see this thread before but for the benefit of anyone else reading this.....

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302203

Back to the OP here...out of curiosity how often are you dosing prime? What kind of filter are you running? If it's not the prime and there is actually .25 of ammonia in your tank I'm struggling to figure out what could be causing it.

Wow thanks for all the research on this topic! Anyway, I'm dosing every other day so the ammo doesn't stress out my betta. I'm using an aqua-culture filter (came with tank) and it has 100 GPH. I will test today as soon as I get home

 

[Rak9378]

Thren - will do for sure!!

AquariumFish - what is the temp of your tank? If you read that other thread that I linked above I think you will see where I'm going!

 

[Andy Sager]

Couple of possibilities:
#1-Since the OP is using cycled material, a possibility is that the nitrate level is coming from the water being used in the tank and water changes. Solution: Check this water prior to adding to the tank.

#2- Water may have been tested too soon after a feeding which is why there is a reading of ammonia but no nitrite yet.
#3- Test reagents may have gone bad. Solution: Take 2 samples and test one with current reagents and take the other to a store to have them check the water and compare the 2 readings. By using the same water from the same period should result in equal results.

Hope this helps

 

[Aquariumfish123]

Thren - will do for sure!!

AquariumFish - what is the temp of your tank? If you read that other thread that I linked above I think you will see where I'm going!

Ah yes I see where you're going! The tank is at a steady 78

 

[Rak9378]

Ah yes I see where you're going! The tank is at a steady 78

Ok good! So based on your pH of 7.6 and temp of 78, a total ammonia reading of .25 means that there would mean that there is only .0059 of toxic ammonia (NH3) in the tank. The rest is all in the non-toxic form (NH4). As you saw in that thread the level of NH3 where ammonia toxicity starts to occur is .05. So you are way below that. You're even below the .02 level that is believed to be a problem for long term exposure. Lastly, even if total ammonia went up to .5, the toxic portion would be .0118, again below the thresholds.

So IMO you can safely stop dosing the prime every other day. Keep testing the water to make sure ammonia isn't increasing. If after 48 hours you're still getting an ammonia reading then you can definitely rule out the Prime and you know there is some other issues causing ammonia. But if the ammonia reading all of a sudden goes away well then I think we can safely assume that the Prime was indeed causing a false reading....and you would help me with a scientific breakthrough!!! Ok maybe not a breakthrough but at least I will know I'm right!

 

[captaincritical]

I'm the OP of the other thread with a similar issue that's been linked here. Just wanted to pop in and let you know that I've stopped dosing Prime daily and my fish are doing great! I do still see my water read between 0 and 0.25ppm, but never higher than that. My tap water reads 0.25ppm out of the tap too, even after aging and dosing with Prime.

I've ordered an Ammonia Alert sensor from SeaChem that I'm going to pick up on Sunday. It measures free ammonia, the dangerous kind. I'm willing to bet that it will read 0 even though my API kit keeps giving me a low reading. I'll let you know!

 

[Aquariumfish123]

Here you go! Today's results!