Discus Discussion

[macman7010]

Well I am pretty sure the discus is suffering from internal worms. The reason I say that is typically these worms cause for shedding of intestinal tissue. Since the fish has a clear, almost tissue like excrement coming from it when it has a bowel movement, my guess is that worms are present.

The PrizaPro I am using is for flagallettes and intestinal worms so hopefully that will help, and the Discus book is on the way. Ill let you guys know what condition it is in since I purchased a used copy.

 

[BrianNY]

One of the toughest things is when yousee something wrong with a discus, and you're not sure what it is. Discus will from time to time expel the lining of their intestines, and perhaps that's what you're seeing. Without me actually seeing the fish, I won't give you a diagnosis. But, if the condition doesn't improve in 3 or 4 days I might begin to treat for Hex. Very high heat (92 or 93), will sometimes cure this without any meds. Heat combined with metro is the most effective cure.

I would never mix medications either. If you're treating for intestinal parasites with Prazi, I wouldn't be using the melafix. Not that I'm certain there is anything wrong with that, but it just goes against my thinking.

As for angels being potential plague carriers, I suspect yes.

 

[greenmaji]

Sounds like you need video for discus illness diagnosis... Seems like it might help anyway..

The plague and angel fish is scarry! I could imagine this getting bad at a auction!

 

[macman7010]

I have even heard that other soft water fish like tetras and more can carry it.

 

[BrianNY]

Well, last night I lost 2 magnificent black veil angels and 1 blue diamond discus.
I fear I'll lose 1 more blue diamond today.

Of the 49 discus I had, 37 came down with the plague on this go around. 35 of them have completely recovered. I suppose that statistically I did a good job. The 2 angels were the only angels I had. I now suspect that any fish can carry the virus and believe it was introduced to the angels from clown loaches. I moved the clown loaches to my angel tank because I knew they couldn't take the heavy salt needed to treat this disease. It never dawned on me that I might introduce the plague from loaches.

Other fish in my house show no signs of this horror however I can't be sure they aren't now carriers. They are several species of dwarf cichlids, black skirt tetras, rummy nose tetras, assorted rasboras, black neons, several species of cories, otos. BN plecos, and the clown loaches.

I'm going wait 2 months and then add a cull angel to make sure this over with.

 

[TankGirl]

Oh Brian, that's terrible! So sorry to hear of your struggles with this but I am sure you are doing everything you can. Fingers crossed for you that this is over with.

 

[greenmaji]

Sorry to hear about this.. and what is considered a cull angel? or cull anyfish, including discus to stay ontopic..?

 

[rubysoho]

wow, I finally got the chance to read this entire thread, it is wonderful!

Brian, I am so sorry to hear about your losses. I seem to remember you mentioning that the disease was transmittable through moisture... perhaps your loaches did not contract and spread disease but the water they carried did?

 

[africamonk]

aww .... sorry to hear that ... hope all of them get well and cut back on your losses ...

 

[BrianNY]

Thanks for the kind responses.

A cull fish is one that is a sacrificial lamb. In this case it would be a fish to test the the magnitude of the disease. I'll add the fish knowing that it may come down with the plague. If it does, the virus is still prevelant. If it does not, I'm safe to add other fish.

And yes rubysoho. It's entirely possible that the virus was introduced by moisture. Perhaps even from netting the fish from one tank to another. Hmmm. Something to consider.

 

[rubysoho]

How common is it to find runts in LFS's or I guess in spawns? The oLFS I venture to has a nice 55 gallon planted display tank with two discus that they did not sell because they felt they weren't in good enough condition (thin, maybe a bit weak, but became healthy quickly). My friend who works there was confused because it looks as if the discus have just stopped growing (maybe 3 inches??). I know they get a huge variety of good food because I've seen the food they feed at different times so I don't think nutrition is a problem. I took a look at them today and I remember the post about the eyes being large for the body means that it is a runt, and both had large eyes. So I guess I am wondering how common is this in discus to have runts? Or can certain events/treatment lead the fish to become smaller than usual?

BrianNY, is there a certain sterilizer that you could put in a bucket and swish the nets/any cleaning tools in before use in different tanks, but would still be safe around fish?

 

[BrianNY]

The more fish are inter-bred, the more likely that recessive traits will become apparent. Some of these recessive traits produce new strains while others produce unwanted characteristics. Dwarfism is becoming more common IMO. It's partly for this reason that when I can set up my hatchery I'll be crossing strains.

As for growing out young discus......... This takes much more care than the average lfs is willing to put in. Juveniles need to be fed many times a day to insure they're getting enough nutrition to grow. Daily water changes and a competition for food promote a healthy discus appetite. I start with 5 or 6 very young discus in a 29g. Between 3 and 4 inches, I move them to a 55g to maximize growth.

Not too many people are willing to spend $100 + for a single adult discus at their lfs. For this reason it seems more common to see juveniles for sale. IMO most of these fish are doomed to be stunted. The average new discus owner puts them in a community tank, rarely changes enough water, and the discus are out competed for enough food.

 

[macman7010]

horrible, sorry to hear about all that

 

[rubysoho]

that is depressing... I don't think my friend knows about the feeding and water changing schedule for younger discus. I think if he were not at the store, they wouldn't have it as well as they do now. I never go in when the store owner is in charge, only when my friend is there. The store owner is... well, what all he says doesn't ring true for the most part.

 

[macman7010]

From what I have read you need to do daily water changes to prevent such stunts in juvenile fish that are housed with larger adults. I now do daily 30% changes in hopes that some of my smaller discus will get some larger.

As an update on my sick fish Brian, I have been treating him with 91 degree temps and have backed out on the PraziPro. He seems a little more active in the qt tank and eats flakes maybe once or twice a week. Going to give him more hospital time then possible move him back to the main tank if he continues to improve.

 

[rubysoho]

good luck macman!

 

[greenmaji]

BrianNY...
I have my tapwater peramiters in my sig. I am wanting to know if I could possibly spawn a strain of discus in these water conditions.. I have been told and kinda knew that heckle discus are out of the question.. Im wondering about some of the less demanding discus..

 

[BrianNY]

Healthy discus will pair off and spawn in almost any water considered potable. However the eggs will hatch only in very soft water. The higher the TDS in the water, the less likely that sperm can penetrate the egg. It's for this reason that RO units are employed by discus breeders.

 

[greenmaji]

Its only theory for right now but I think Ive managed to figure out a way to filter out the mucus Brian! ATS, the turf seems to machanicly filter the water in marine tanks so well that people are having their protein skimmers fail to function.. here is a thread..
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79463

For anyone that has not read my other posts on the subject Im not trying to find a mirical cure to water changes.. I am looking for better water quality.. That is it.. thats all! LOL If the water is cleaner when I change it Im quite sure this will not harm any fish what so ever!!! LOL.. Who knows.. it might keep it so clean that I wouldnt have to change as much water as I would if I didnt have such a filter.. I wouldnt complain.. but I would never assume such a thing... It would be from hard organized experimentation only....

My current DIY thread on reaserching ATS

 

[greenmaji]

Would anyone happen to know what the average adult discus consumes in food, in dry weight, per week or month?